302 to 5.0 EFI Swap Yes or no

[bronco t]

I want to freshen up or replace my stock 1977 302 w/C4 auto. She runs great but leaks oil everywhere... I guess she a bit tired. I found a 1985 t-bird 5.0 EFI doner with 30k miles and was wondering if this swap would be a good one. I am not a power freak, but want dependability and no carb stumble when off roading. So, will this swap be worth it? Will the EFI add too many $$$ to the project?

Oh, the vehicle has federal smog requirements, and not California (no smog pump). So do any California members have any experience with the referee station game? What year smog level will they hold me too... 1977 or 1985? Federal or California?

I know a bunch of questions, but most of you have lived this before.

 

[Steve83]

EFI is always a good idea, but I'd look for a newer truck donor. The truck cam & tuning will give you better low-speed torque. That '85 is probably CFI instead of MFI, so that's another reason I'd avoid those early cars. '84-93 truck 5.0Ls are EEC-IV MAP; '94-95 are EEC-IV MAP or MAF; '96 are OBD-II MAF. '97-02 Explorers/Mountaineers are also good donors, and they're all OBD-II MAF. To keep a flat hood, you have to swap to the car intake, but that's cheap & easy.

 

[BroncoDawg]

Great post!! Cool having EFI gurus hanging out!!!!

 

[G's Baja Bronco]

My understanding is that they will hold you to the motor because it is newer, cats and what ever else came with it.

 

[blubuckaroo]

The motor needs all the equipment the car came with. It needs an EGR, air pump, and catalitic converter. That's for the visual part of the inspection. With EFI it should have no problem passing the emissions part.

 

[bronco t]

Thanks steve83 that is what I was looking for. As for the smog issue my eb is a federal emission vehicle that just recently passed CA smog. It has an egr, pcv, vacuum canister, vacuum advance distributor, and timing was set to tdc.

So far one vote follows the vehicle and one the motor?

I will visit a smog referee station and find out what the "left coast" gurus have to say and post when I find out.

BTW - not to be a gomer but how do you find a post after you enter it? It took me a while to find his post.

 

[Skiddy]

BTW - not to be a gomer but how do you find a post after you enter it? It took me a while to find his post.

if you subscribed to the thread go to user CP and it will show all of the subscribed threads you have posted in

 

[Steve83]

Are you asking how to find your own post (..."after you enter it?") or someone else's ("...his post.")? Click your username, go to your public profile, & look in your Statistics for "All threads started by this user". But if someone has replied to a thread, it will move to the top of the forum, assuming you have the forum sorted by Last Post. Just scroll down thru the forum & look for your thread - it'll have an arrow on the thread icon to indicate you've posted in it.

 

[broncnaz]

Emissions rules almost always apply to year of the engine swapped in and in most cases its required to be newer than the the year of the vehicle that it was swapped into but have all emissions equipement the donor vehicle had not really a big deal with EFI engines you just need to know what it had and install it. they can hold you to both federal and state rules if they want usually state rules are tougher than the federal rules.

If that 85 tbird had the MFI engine, but I think the MFI didnt come out until 86. then you should be fine thats a pretty low mileage engine and if the price is right I'd go for it. If its CFI then its debateable. I know a few guys that have run it and it does work. just not sure if the work involved with swapping it is worth the effort.
Overall you'll probably see a gain of about 40hp just with the newer engine compared to a stock 77 302. You could also just convert the new engine to carburation and the emissions guys would never know a good working motorcraft carb is both dependable and good offroad.

 

[broncosbybart]

Overall you'll probably see a gain of about 40hp just with the newer engine compared to a stock 77 302. You could also just convert the new engine to carburation and the emissions guys would never know a good working motorcraft carb is both dependable and good offroad.

huh? a good HO 302 will run circles around a stock 302. i don't know the emissions side of it, as we don't have the same restrictions here, but IMHO EFI is the way to go! It isn't cheap, but it works great! I'd look for a 96-97 5.0 Exploder w/the Mustang MAF setup.

Not sure what your budget is, but I'd figure if you scavenged it all, except for getting the wiring harness/plumbing new, you should be good to go for about $2k.

 

[bronco t]

I'll bet that the Cali rules will prevail over the fed rules. I like the carb idea because of serviceability in the desert. I chase our class 1600 car in baja and Cali and do not want to be the one to have issues that can't be fixed mui pronto. Sounds like a late model exploder would the best bet with carburetor, (keep it simple). I want serpentine belts, big alternator to charge batteries for winch, hi flow water pump, and Cold AC. Any draw backs to this list.

Sorry for the cryptic question re posts. Thanks for the insight on the CP sort.

 

[broncnaz]

huh? a good HO 302 will run circles around a stock 302. i don't know the emissions side of it, as we don't have the same restrictions here, but IMHO EFI is the way to go! It isn't cheap, but it works great! I'd look for a 96-97 5.0 Exploder w/the Mustang MAF setup.

Not sure what your budget is, but I'd figure if you scavenged it all, except for getting the wiring harness/plumbing new, you should be good to go for about $2k.

The early EFI engines were only rated at 180 Hp vs 77 302 at 140 ish. I really dont know what your Huhing about?? 40 Hp is not that much and easily attained with a a few mods to a 77 engine as they were seriously detuned from the factory. yes HO engines were more but 1985 HO engines were still carburated.
Techincally almost everyone has the same emissions requirements per fedral regulation if you dont have the required equipment your in voliation. Its just that its rarely enforced not that I mind. States usually set tougher rules and cannot have leaner rules than the fed. like I said its just enforcement some states or eve areas just dont/wont enforce the federal regs.

 

[broncnaz]

I'll bet that the Cali rules will prevail over the fed rules. I like the carb idea because of serviceability in the desert. I chase our class 1600 car in baja and Cali and do not want to be the one to have issues that can't be fixed mui pronto. Sounds like a late model exploder would the best bet with carburetor, (keep it simple). I want serpentine belts, big alternator to charge batteries for winch, hi flow water pump, and Cold AC. Any draw backs to this list.

Sorry for the cryptic question re posts. Thanks for the insight on the CP sort.

Cali rules usually set the bar so your probably right as they tend to be tougher than the fed. Things like a serp setup and bigger alternator are no problem you can bolt that stuff on early engines as well highflow water pumps are usually not needed. the late modle explore engines are good choices but if your going through the effort you may as well go with the EFI

 

[Steve83]

I agree - EFI is simpler & much more reliable than a carb. It probably won't ever need service; in the desert or anywhere else. The biggest problem I've had with mine since converting it to EFI is a coil that crapped out.

 

[bronco t]

This whole engine swap was started because I had to replace the rear main seal that was put in backwards by the PO. It still drips today so i jumped to the conclusion that the crank may have been turned 10 thou. Which probably means that the engine is bored to the max, and over heating will be the next challenge. I'm going to see the bird doner in morro bay next weekend at my cousins house. He also has a 1999 mercury mountaineer 5.0 that is available as a doner. I think tricking out a carb motor will be my first step, end then upgrade to efi when all the ducks are in order.

 

[Rox Crusher]

This whole engine swap was started because I had to replace the rear main seal that was put in backwards by the PO. It still drips today so i jumped to the conclusion that the crank may have been turned 10 thou. Which probably means that the engine is bored to the max, and over heating will be the next challenge. I'm going to see the bird doner in morro bay next weekend at my cousins house.

This is precisely how most upgrades get started. Go with it. ;D

He also has a 1999 mercury mountaineer 5.0 that is available as a doner.

I would go with the 5.0 EFI from this mountaineer assuming the miles are reasonable and a good price.

I am converting to 5.0 EFI using an 98 explorer engine. I have been collecting parts and planning to do it this fall.

Low and behold the rear main on my 77 started leaking like a sieve during a recent wheelin trip. So I guess I will be doing it sooner rather than later.

I believe the newer engines have a different (read better) rear main seal arrangement.