351 pulley setup question

[Shubyjames]

Can anyone tell me why the serpentine pulley set on an 84 truck 351w will not work in our Broncos?

Since the engine is not in I obviously do not know how it will fit. I have the original pulleys and brackets from the stock 302, but I’m swapping for the 351. I have all the pulleys and brackets from the 351 and off hand I don’t quite understand why I just couldn’t reuse them. The power steering pump is on the same side and if I “remember” correctly everything seems to be in the same place. I cannot locate any good pictures showing specifically the set up of either engine that would at least demonstrate why they are not compatible. I know many of you out there have traveled this road, so if you wouldn’t mind filling me in on my stupidly it would be greatly appreciated. The only difference I know off hand is the water pump which I can’t see that being an issue as far fit is concerned.

Please help,
Shuby

PS
I couldn’t make it the eastern roundup, if you were there how was it?

 

[SaddleUp]

Can anyone tell me why the serpentine pulley set on an 84 truck 351w will not work in our Broncos?

Since the engine is not in I obviously do not know how it will fit. I have the original pulleys and brackets from the stock 302, but I’m swapping for the 351. I have all the pulleys and brackets from the 351 and off hand I don’t quite understand why I just couldn’t reuse them. The power steering pump is on the same side and if I “remember” correctly everything seems to be in the same place. I cannot locate any good pictures showing specifically the set up of either engine that would at least demonstrate why they are not compatible. I know many of you out there have traveled this road, so if you wouldn’t mind filling me in on my stupidly it would be greatly appreciated. The only difference I know off hand is the water pump which I can’t see that being an issue as far fit is concerned.

Please help,
Shuby

PS
I couldn’t make it the eastern roundup, if you were there how was it?

The power steering pump could have clearance issues with the steering gear. Did someone specifically say they would not work? If I would have found a bracket for the passenger side then I would be running the same setup. Since I didn't I put a serpentine setup from a 90 Crown Vic 5.0 on. (Timing chain cover and all bracketry)

 

[Skuzzlebutt]

The 351 puts the alt & PS pump about an inch higher and an inch farther out from center than they would be on a 302. The accessory brakets for the two engines are different.

 

[Shubyjames]

The 351 puts the alt & PS pump about an inch higher and an inch farther out from center than they would be on a 302. The accessory brakets for the two engines are different.

In the ballpark, how much work do you feel is involved in modifing those brackets?

 

[eBronc]

All or nothing...

I went through all this months ago, and detailed everything on my website:

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/tech.htm

You'd think that parts from one small block Ford would bolt right up to any other small block Ford and work just fine. You'd be wrong. Ford changed so many things over the years in it's small blocks that about the only thing they share is bore spacing.

You've got 28 oz and 50 oz external balance, 3 or 4 bolt crank pulley bolt pattern, balancer offset differences, standard or reverse-rotation water pumps, V-belt or serpentine (even some cars with serpentine-type belts that actually ran the standard direction)...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Honestly, by far the least frustrating way to switch over from the old V-belts to a serpentine setup is to get the ENTIRE setup from a donor vehicle, and use each and every part on your Bronco. Don't try to mix and match, I promise you'll just create more problems that way. I know from experience.

All serpentine setups run the water pump backwards, so this will create radiator hose issues with the stock Bronco radiator. Some configurations will put the power steering pulley either in contact with the power steering box on the frame or VERY close to it.

 

[HotWheels]

I also just finished reworking all the 302 brackets onto the 351w. Everything is oriented better than the modified 351w brakets. Finally getting this thing going. I have a spare p/s bracket relocater if u need it.

 

[SaddleUp]

Re: All or nothing...

I went through all this months ago, and detailed everything on my website:

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/tech.htm

You'd think that parts from one small block Ford would bolt right up to any other small block Ford and work just fine. You'd be wrong. Ford changed so many things over the years in it's small blocks that about the only thing they share is bore spacing.

You've got 28 oz and 50 oz external balance, 3 or 4 bolt crank pulley bolt pattern, balancer offset differences, standard or reverse-rotation water pumps, V-belt or serpentine (even some cars with serpentine-type belts that actually ran the standard direction)...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Honestly, by far the least frustrating way to switch over from the old V-belts to a serpentine setup is to get the ENTIRE setup from a donor vehicle, and use each and every part on your Bronco. Don't try to mix and match, I promise you'll just create more problems that way. I know from experience.

All serpentine setups run the water pump backwards, so this will create radiator hose issues with the stock Bronco radiator. Some configurations will put the power steering pulley either in contact with the power steering box on the frame or VERY close to it.

The serpentine setups do not run the water pump backwards. At first I thought you meant the water pumps are all reverse rotation (mine isn't) but your previous sentence mentions that some were standard rotation. I think what you mean is that all serpentine setups have the lower hose coming out on the drivers side which is opposite of the way they are on the EB.

Since I did not get any of the brackets for the front of my 5.8L when I bought it I used the drivers side bracket off the 90 Grand Marquis 5.0L that was previously in mine. I had to change the timing cover and water pump to do this though.

If you go with a complete setup off a doner be sure you get the water pump, lower pulley (make sure it is a 4 bolt if your current one is a 4 bolt), "and" the timing cover unless you are absolutely sure they are the same. We were lucky enough to find the one bracket we needed for my brothers 5.8L but he used the truck setup in his. (78 Bronco so no way to compare fit) When we were out looking at them there were almost as many different setups as there were cars. The only plus is that the 5.0L brackets often bolt right up to the 5.8L. If they only bolt to the head or the water pump they will uusally work. Even if they bolt to both they will sometimes have provisions for both in the brackets (2 places for head bolts) like the driver side bracket I used off the Grand Marquis 5.0L. (Water Pump and Alternator are both on the same side) The passenger bracket would have required a lot of work but I didn't need the AC or Air pumps anyway. Since it is a double pulley setup I can go back later and build brackets to run an AC pump off the other pulley if I want.

 

[Shubyjames]

Thanks guys for all the advice and even the how to links, I greatly appreciate it. For a moment there I didn’t think anyone was going to respond. Hotwheels, thanks for offering that part, however, I’m not sure at this time if I would even need it but if I do I will look you up.

One more question. What is the word on the power steering pumps that are on the 84 pickup or an 87 Lincoln Town car? I have pumps from both vehicles and just wondering how they would hold up to the abuse of 4-wheeling as apposed to the stock pump.

Thanks once again ahead of time,
Shuby

 

[Lttrbox]

ower steering pumps that are on the 84 pickup or an 87 Lincoln Town car?

I just read this and had to post. I just got done doing a F-350 pump replacement/building bracket, etc. It turns out that the 87 Lincoln Cont Pump is the same as the F-350 (I forget the year on this). It seems to me that the pump ought to work fine. Mine wasnt a HD model (didnt think about it at the time) and doesnt come with the dipstick and stock bracket wont work without the horseshoe adapter.

My brother has been using a very similar looking pump (T-bird pump) for a few years now with 37s and its still works fine.

 

[Shubyjames]

Lttrbox, that is great to hear! I was hoping that the response would be positive. I would much rather use a 17yr old pump then one that is almost 30yrs old.

Thanks for the post!!!