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76 Bronco Lean - C Bushings Correct?

Mike42p

Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
69
What's up fellas. My 76 Bronco - after a 5.5" lift has a pretty nice lean towards the driver side in the rear. After checking the forums here I found C Bushings the likely culprit. After checking those, and they are all installed correct, I am somewhat confused as to what it could be. Body mount bushings look ok. No lean before the lift. Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,370
Hey Mike. The C-bushings are only one possible culprit since you've changed to other new parts as well. But they're still one of the most likely.
They do not have to be installed in the wrong orientation, they simply have to be installed using an incorrect method.

For instance:
1. Did you clean the axle pad surfaces prior to installation?
2. Did you liberally lube the bushings before installation?
3. Did you follow the one corner, then the other, one side, then the other alternating method for tightening the bolts?
The tightening sequence is the most important aspect of the install, because the radius arms are big torsion bars in that they can cause the truck to tilt if they're not perfectly even on both sides. That's what most of the other discussions are about most of the time these days.

Those three things can make a huge difference in how it leans.
But a slightly different leaf pack or coil spring can do it as well.

And while you're looking things over, you might as well measure other things like the spring towers in the front, to make sure they're of equal height on the frame. Same for the rear spring hangers. These are not always at fault, but definitely can be.
The fact that it did not lean before might seem to indicate that these last things are not a problem, but after so many years it's actually possible for springs to sag unevenly and "fix" what would have been a lean previously.
It just never ends!!!

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Mike42p

Mike42p

Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
69
Thanks so much for the reply. I did clean the surface but I did not lube or correctly tighten the bolts as you mentioned. Could you tell me proper lube and give me a better idea of exactly how they should be tightened down. Thanks again for the help!!!
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Thanks so much for the reply. I did clean the surface but I did not lube or correctly tighten the bolts as you mentioned. Could you tell me proper lube and give me a better idea of exactly how they should be tightened down. Thanks again for the help!!!

Mike,

The big question is,

Did you pull the axle off the truck and install the radius arms to the axle .....again not attached to the truck?

This way you know for sure that the arms are level. They must be level and as low as possible relative to the axle typical installed position.


If you didn't....sorry....but it may take that to fix it.....especially the arms being level.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,370
There are super sticky silicone based lubes specifically for polyurethane, but I think the lube-of-choice for most is just some soft hand soap.;D
Works well, is water soluable so does not make a lasting mess, and does not hurt the poly.
In a pinch though, some of us(%)) have used anti-seize to good effect.

The procedure is harder to explain than to do, but once you see how big of a difference a little bit of bolt tightening does to the angle of the arms, you'll see exactly what we're talking about.
But before you start, verify with careful measurements that both spring towers are of equal height, and just as importantly, both radius arm mounts or equal distances off the bottom of the frame.
Any variation here would possibly be compensated for when working down the C-caps.

Best done with the trailing ends of the arms out of their brackets so you can see the tips as they change height.
There should be a level surface for the tips to sit on. Whether the floor, or jack-stands or some similar surface that is measured to be sure they're at the exact height off the ground. Just make sure that the axle is level to the ground as well, or all bets are off.

Loosen the caps until the C-bushings are floating, then re-tighten gradually, turning each bolt just a little to ensure that each cap is going down with relatively equal gaps top and bottom.
As you do this, you will see the opposite tips of the arms rise and fall as you change from bolt to bolt. Your goal is to keep both arms at an equal height from your reference point.

You can do most of one arm at a time until near the end and then alternate in small amounts, or, like most do (and probably more accurately), a small amount of one arm, then jump to the other arm and alternate bolts there as well so that the arms fall into the same level as you go.

No matter where you start your alternating, as you do make sure to watch the tips closely as you alternate between arms and individual bolts to verify that the tips are remaining at an equal height as they relate to the jack-stands or floor.

Once you've fully closed the cap gaps and have torqued the bolts to spec, both radius arm ends should be flat on the ground. There is a small level of acceptable difference (probably about a 1/4" or so) but the more precise the better.

In theory, you're done.
In theory....

Paul
 
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Mike42p

Mike42p

Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
69
Awesome!! Or ...... Not so awesome. It looks like I blew it from the start. When I get some time I'll get a buddy to help me yank it off again and see if we can't get it right this time. Uuuughhhh. Thanks so much as in for you guys time and input. Much appreciated.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Awesome!! Or ...... Not so awesome. It looks like I blew it from the start. When I get some time I'll get a buddy to help me yank it off again and see if we can't get it right this time. Uuuughhhh. Thanks so much as in for you guys time and input. Much appreciated.

Wish you weren't so far away....
I'd love to help.

The process is technically easy but laborious and time consuming as you already know.....
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,370
Hmm, might be worth a quick experiment. If it does't pan out, you just proceed as planned anyway.

Has anyone ever reported (for good or bad) trying to do this just by loosening the c-caps and then tightening up using the alternating method, all while leaving the radius arm ends in their brackets? Seems like I remember someone trying it with limited results, but can't remember any details.
Granted, you can't "see" the ends going up and down, but maybe you can "feel" how it's proceeding?

Seems sketchy at best (these "torsion bars" are very strong) but might be worth an afternoon's effort. Just remember to un-bolt the spring cups so the caps can separate.

Paul
 
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Mike42p

Mike42p

Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
69
Yeah. Orlando. Not so close!! I wish you were as well. I'm learning as I go along on this. These mistakes are gonna kill me though!! Should have started reading here first!!! HA!!
 

Whoaa

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
1,059
Hey Mike.... you're not alone!

This prolly won't help or make you feel any better, ok it could make you feel better. I did my bushing and lift 3 times because of bonehead rookie mistakes :p

Now, with all my experience I'm nearly an expert.

I use gojo hand cleaner or kitchen dish soap to lube the bushings. Its really important that they don't bind and are allowed to full seat [evenly] in the cups.

The mounts on the diff housing need to be clean, as in wire-wheel *clean*, the C caps need to also be perfectly clean.
 
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bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Mike,


Post photos and a description of how you do your arm correction as it will help other newbies when they search for this same thing in the future.


I can personally attest to learning more from my and others mistakes than I ever did our success's.
 

Whoaa

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
1,059
I can personally attest to learning more from my and others mistakes than I ever did our success's.

Awwww...its so nice to laugh at ourselves sometimes. And get comfort in our own misery knowing "we ain't the first and won't be the last".

This website is so valuable! I've learned so much and continue to learn. Nothing beats the can-do attitude of taking on projects and learning as you go :)
 

kip60

Full Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
238
This is something on my list of "next thing to do" possibilities. Glad there are so many people here willing to share their mistakes and knowledge to help the rest of us. Going to bookmark this one so I don't make the same mistakes. (but probably will anyway to some extent). Thanks, Donk, for the step by step
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,122
Paul, I had a buddy do what you asked...can you do this procedure with the radius arms in place just by loosening and maybe trying a variety of things to get it sitting level. It worked for him, not for me or several other buddies...

This is funny (to me anyway) because I'm the guy that figured out the soft spring/lean issue back in the '90's after bolting up my first set of long travel springs and had a lean which I never had before. After dinking with it for several days (a lot of trial and error attempts) I noticed the radius arms not level and figured out that this was the cause of what literally hundreds of us were experiencing...anyway, I wrote it up for the original BroncoFix site and back in the day all the Bronco parts houses had this on their website since so many EB owners switching to long travel suspension systems were all of a sudden "tilting" :) We blamed everything, but this is what the problem was. Of COURSE there can be other causes....
 
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Mike42p

Mike42p

Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
69
NO QUESTION THERE. Thanks so much to everyone. Hopefully I'll get it right this time. This site is badass.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I guess I can go on record as one not believing in the "C bushing tightening" theory.
I can see it affecting the body angles, but not as much as the other variables.
Make sure of your spring and body mounts before suspecting the "C" bushing seating.
Usually it's just a bent or corroded body mount.;)
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,122
Try pulling your radius arm caps off with long travel springs and bolt the caps on so the radius arms aren't parallel...you will be leaning... then if you don't believe it, tighten the cap bolts so the radius arms are the opposite of the way they were before and your Bronco will be leaning the other way... like Paul said they kind of act like torsion bars. when "tweaked" so they aren't parallel.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Try pulling your radius arm caps off with long travel springs and bolt the caps on so the radius arms aren't parallel...you will be leaning... then if you don't believe it, tighten the cap bolts so the radius arms are the opposite of the way they were before and your Bronco will be leaning the other way... like Paul said they kind of act like torsion bars. when "tweaked" so they aren't parallel.



This, This, This....../\/\/\
 
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