Air Bags on a 1970 Bronco?

[K. Schaefer]

Hey guys,
Hope all is well. I haven't done much research but I was wondering if it is even possible to install a drivers Air Bag on a 1970. If I took it to a shop do you think they could do it? And is it even worth it?
Thanks

 

[Broncobowsher]

No, cannot be done safely. Airbags are part of the whole vehicle safety system and are not a retrofitable part to old cars.

 

[Steve83]

Anything's possible. Read this:



But you probably won't find a shop that will do it, due to the liability if it fails to deploy, or if it malfunctions & blows unnecessarily. You'll probably have to DIY, or find a pro who'll do it as a side job. Where are you?

Worth is something only you can decide: a lift & big tires aren't worth it to some people - others wouldn't own an eB without them.

If you decide to do it, take LOTS of pics.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I don't see how anyone could possibly retrofit the proper crumple zones into a Bronco to match the needs of an airbag system.

 

[Wyflyer]

If you decide to do it, take LOTS of pics.

No, mount a video camera somewhere.. I want to see video when you cross the red wire and the blue wire

 

[Knox]

i remember sombody putting a complete dash replacement from a ford probe or maybe from a mazda in the bronco.

 

[HGM]

So, technicaly, all of the above is correct. However, the point behind an airbag is to slow the bodys forward motion. Providing it is installed properly and a proper shoulder belt is used to keep you located where the airbag can help, there's no reason it will not work. I've got a '96 column mounted in my '73, have run the wires and mounted the module. The sensors will need to be located in the proper locations and should work just fine.. Crumple zones are critical for crash survival, but more for directing the vehicle body away from the passenger and absorbing the vehicles energy, than to assist the airbag. So, in my opinion, it can be done safely and will work as designed, as well as it can in a 40yr old cage.. The driver will be decelerating at a different rate based on crumple zones, but an airbag would be better than none..

Now, as for practicality.. My question to you would be, why?

My answer is, because, I have the stuff and knowhow to do it and felt like experimenting..

 

[Wyflyer]

I just don't get it, why waste a good airbag when you can use it to launch a squirrel into orbit

http://funvoid.com/videos/squirrel-launch

 

[BCH BRCO]

I think it would be a huge mistake to think you can mount an "air bag" steering column in a Bronco and think it will work just fine. Fact of the matter is that there is a tremendous amount product development and testing with computer simulation and actual crash testing to validate the effectiveness of an air bag system.
My 32 years of experience at Ford Motor Co. being around this kind of stuff is where I'm coming from!!! There is a reason why they call them "crash test dummies".

 

[HGM]

So, taking a look at the link Steve provided(as always good stuff Steve!!), I found the most compelling argument agains the airbags. It basicly takes what BB said a bit further, regarding the decleration rate that even I mentioned...

These are a nice safety feature on vehicles manufactured in the last decade. The ’04 has driver and passenger side airbags that somehow remained intact. That means I could and should put airbags in my ’78 bronco! WRONG! The ’04 has crash severity sensors in the nose (plus a driver seat position sensor) that tell the airbags when and how hard to inflate. It also has front crumple zones that help reduce the felt G-forces in a crash situation. My bronco has no such crumple zones and will either destroy (my preference) or bounce off of (much higher G-forces, ouch) an object it runs into. Let’s say I leave the airbag systems active and get into a head-on collision. If the airbag deploys too soon I’ll slam into a deflating bag and hit the steering wheel like I normally would. If it deploys late I could have already impacted the steering wheel only to then be slammed backward by the delayed explosive inflation of the bag. No thank you. I’ll stick with my seatbelts.

I'll re-think mine, but its still got a cool factor. Even if it doesnt work..

 

[Broncobowsher]

I don't think that the crumple zone part of the equasion is correctly understood.
When you smack a late model and ball it up. The airbag inflates (at a prescribed rate and time per specific vehicle) to put a lot of serface area against your body to basicly hold it in the seat. While you are in the seat you are part of the vehicle. Now the front end balls up and absorbs a lot of energy. your body gets a lower G load, the forces during that G load are spread across the whole upper body.

Get the crumple zone wrong, the airbag timing and inflation will be wrong and more then likely you will induce more injury then not having one. If the cabin is already stopping, you are moving forward toward the steering wheel and the bag blows (the difference between correct and bad timing is milliseconds) then it is no longer holding you in the seat but impacting your body and slamming you back into the seat. Kinda right isn't close to right or even safe.

As per HGM's signiture, I am staying in a Holiday Inn Express tonight. With a bunch of real automotive engineers as well

 

[beaubronco]

There are no words for a response

 

[jim3326]

Pay attention, drive defensivley....best safety equipment available, especially in a 45 year old vehicle!

Jim W.

 

[broncnaz]

Pay attention, drive defensivley....best safety equipment available, especially in a 45 year old vehicle!

Jim W.

X2 while accidents happen I dont see a airbag making a bronco any safer. Wear your seat belt and just realize you are probably the bigger vehicle and will come out of a accident in better shape than someone driving a new car.
If safety concerns you that much just sell the bronco.;D

 

[Steve83]

I don't see how anyone could possibly retrofit the proper crumple zones into a Bronco to match the needs of an airbag system.

It's not that difficult. When Land Rover added SRS to the Discovery, they simply bolted Aluminum crumple boxes to the front of the frame horns, just behind the bumper. There's not much engineering required to make something weak enough to fail over a specific distance.

The only purpose of the crumple zone is to allow a little time (a few milliseconds) for the bag(s) to inflate before the chassis decelerates, and the occupant begins moving forward, relative to the steering column. The airbag system itself will work fine without any crumple zone. And if the SRS occupants are wearing their (3-point or more) seat belts properly (no slack), they'll get the full benefit of the airbags. It's only if they're NOT belted properly that they might move into the airbag deployment zone and get smacked by a hot airbag.

But I think that would still be safer than being smacked by a 30-y.o. NON-telescopic steering column bolted almost directly to the frame, which WILL be decelerating; especially with no crumple zones. And if it does crumple, there's no telling WHERE it'll crumple. If it crumples under the cabin, you'll get slammed even harder. At that point, ANYTHING (even a mistimed airbag) would be safer than being impaled by a steel shaft in the chest, or eating a bare steel dash, or face-planting into the w/s.

So I can't imagine any situation in which an airbag would likely cause MORE injury than a 45-y.o. design that incorporates NO crash or rollover safety features. Here's how I think of it: imagine a wreck so severe that the deploying airbag might hurt you - now imagine the SAME wreck, without the airbag. It's even uglier...

I'm not adding SRS to mine, but there's nothing wrong with adding it.

BTW
Even a highly-engineered crumple zone isn't necessarily going to reduce your impact. I've been snagging parts off wrecked FSBs & F-series for quite a few years, and I think I've seen ONE '92-96 crumple zone (out of thousands) that wasn't exactly the same shape as when it left the factory. This truck was hit hard enough to diamond the frame, but the crumple zone didn't budge:

.

Being a '93, that truck doesn't have an airbag. The frame was redesigned in '92, but SRS didn't appear until '94.

 

[KennyB]

Just drive with a 19 year old girl on your lap (one with Implants).... I do.... HA!

 

[OX1]

It's not that difficult.

It's the crashes that you probably didn't even need the airbag I'd be more worried about. GF's best friends is now deaf in one ear due to an airbag, which probably did not even need to deploy. It was an earlier bag in a saturn, so I'm sure that played part. But thats part of the point, newer bags know enough parameters to deploy @ the correct force, and it's more than just the timing. This chick was small and sat close. Newer bags would have known @ a minimum her weight (and probably seat position). Not sure how easy all that would be to incorporate.

 

[jim3326]

That's interesting, I would have thought the frame would have a higher kip than mild steel. I am a lot less worried about welding on the frame now;D I was thinking the frame was at least 50,000 psi.

Jim W.

 

[Steve83]

Not sure how easy all that would be to incorporate.

Probably easier than incorporating EFI. Just find a donor vehicle with seat position sensors, occupant classification system, & 2-stage airbags, and transfer it all.

BTW
OCS isn't all that sophisticated, and it's easily "confused", in which case it always defaults to just blowing both stages of all the bags & pretensioners together.

That's interesting...

If you want to read a LOT more, https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/bodybuild.html

 

[Rustytruck]

The safety in a Bronco is using the other guys crumple zone. You just need better seatbelts and get the damn steering wheel out of your face. It needs a roll bar that works properly and wont punch through the floor. After looking at years of Bronco pictures with crashes and roll overs the failure points are pretty predictable. Your in a truck designed to go 30mph not 70mph. Theres been a whole lot of improvements in safety design in 45 years.