Any updates on dual vs single plane manifold, and TBI's?

[OX1]

Found this.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277415&highlight=holley+sniper+dual+plane+manifold

I already have a Weiand Street Warrior, nicely powder coated
and already installed on an 89 5.0 (w/ GT40 heads, stock roller
cam with 1.7 roller rockers, headers/duals,, but otherwise stock).

Curious of any updates, since this thread was about a
year and a half ago.

 

[pcf_mark]

If you are using any type of TBI (fuel injection that bolts on in place of the carb) select the intake manifold that matches your other engine characteristics. You still have to move an air/fuel mix from the bottom of the TBI to the intake valve - all you changed is how the air gets into the air stream. You do not need a strong "signal" like you do for a carb to pull fuel out of the carb but you need a good steady signal to the TBI MAP sensor so it can make sense of what is happening. Big camshaft and single plan reduces the signal and the impact on TBI or a carb is the same - difficult meter of fuel.

 

[rcmbronc]

I have heard that the divider in the dual plane intake caused the TBI FI issues. Cant say from experience. If you dont have the divider all should be fine. If so you can have it milled down a bit or a small open spacer.

 

[blubuckaroo]

You can always use your factory 2Bbl manifold with either the Viper or FiTech two barrel version. They're rated at 400 HP. Sounds like enough to me.

 

[OX1]

I have heard that the divider in the dual plane intake caused the TBI FI issues. Cant say from experience. If you dont have the divider all should be fine. If so you can have it milled down a bit or a small open spacer.

The milling is what I don't want to do as if that doesn't work, how many would buy a milled down used manifold. I did put in a 1.75 body lift, so my options for carb spacers are much greater now, so I'm going to try an inch open spacer first.

Was hoping there were more examples now of those running dual plane (of course with a manifold that fits build), no milling/carb spacers, and no issues at all.

 

[bmc69]

The intake on the 400 in my 69 was a dual plane with divider and no spacer between the tbi throttle body and intake. Never saw any issues with that, Jim.

 

[Digger556]

I had a Weiand Stealth intake with a F.A.S.T. TB and Megasquirt setup and never had good luck. Even after adding a spacer, I spent 2 years dialing out problems and got it running well, but still had some uneven fueling at WOT and start issues.

I talked to an engineer friend about GM TBIs. Apparently they were all single plane for a reason.

 

[OX1]

The intake on the 400 in my 69 was a dual plane with divider and no spacer between the tbi throttle body and intake. Never saw any issues with that, Jim.

Thanks Bill. Now that you mention it, I don't recall
ever hearing about that issue up until recently.

Wonder if that being a much higher end system
made any difference, but I guess today's cheapies are
not far off from 10-15 years ago high end stuff.
Did that one have wideband feedback?

I've got a 1" Moroso 4 hole spacer that appears/feels
like it's alum, but they called it "plastic" on the package
(which I kept, of course ;D) back in the day.
Not sure if it some kind hybrid material. Wanted to not run
a metal spacer to try to isolate TB/processor some.

Going to cut the center out of it and run it, will give
me a lot more choices on the air cleaner I suppose, if
nothing else.

 

[bmc69]

Thanks Bill. Now that you mention it, I don't recall
ever hearing about that issue up until recently.

Wonder if that being a much higher end system
made any difference, but I guess today's cheapies are
not far off from 10-15 years ago high end stuff.
Did that one have wideband feedback?

I've got a 1" Moroso 4 hole spacer that appears/feels
like it's alum, but they called it "plastic" on the package
(which I kept, of course ;D) back in the day.
Not sure if it some kind hybrid material. Wanted to not run
a metal spacer to try to isolate TB/processor some.

Going to cut the center out of it and run it, will give
me a lot more choices on the air cleaner I suppose, if
nothing else.

I'm working with the Holley Dominator/HP systems these days and they are a lot "smarter" than the old 950 Commander was. Same basic hardware though, ECM and software excepted. I never got around to putting the wide-band O2 on the '69 trail rig but I do have it on the current '69 project and glad of it. Running a 2-bar MAP as well, since it's supercharged. The new software (which is also used on Sniper systems too) is really slick.

Check out Left Eye Blind; they sell a range of really nice phenolic spacers.

https://left-eye-blind-racing-and-fabrication.myshopify.com/

 

[migs]

My 70 Bronco has a rebuilt 5.0 from an explorer with the stock cam and heads. I put an Edelbrock performer dual plane manifold on it along with a Holley 2bbl sniper. I needed an adapter to fit the throttle body unit to the manifold and went with one with individual holes.
No issues with it, runs great with good power, starts right up and has been reliable and I drive it all over the place(...until they salt the roads).
Also, for reference, truck has a 1" body lift and the 3" air filter with a drop base clears the hood no problem.

 

[pcf_mark]

That looks really sharp Migs! No logical reason why the intake would make any difference unless the FitTech is doing something weird with firing the injectors corner to corner not from to rear.

 

[OX1]

I had a Weiand Stealth intake with a F.A.S.T. TB and Megasquirt setup and never had good luck. Even after adding a spacer, I spent 2 years dialing out problems and got it running well, but still had some uneven fueling at WOT and start issues.

I talked to an engineer friend about GM TBIs. Apparently they were all single plane for a reason.

So you never went to a single plane?

 

[OX1]

I'm working with the Holley Dominator/HP systems these days and they are a lot "smarter" than the old 950 Commander was. Same basic hardware though, ECM and software excepted. I never got around to putting the wide-band O2 on the '69 trail rig but I do have it on the current '69 project and glad of it. Running a 2-bar MAP as well, since it's supercharged. The new software (which is also used on Sniper systems too) is really slick.

Check out Left Eye Blind; they sell a range of really nice phenolic spacers.

https://left-eye-blind-racing-and-fabrication.myshopify.com/

None fully open I guess? I only see 4 holers............

My 70 Bronco has a rebuilt 5.0 from an explorer with the stock cam and heads. I put an Edelbrock performer dual plane manifold on it along with a Holley 2bbl sniper. I needed an adapter to fit the throttle body unit to the manifold and went with one with individual holes.
No issues with it, runs great with good power, starts right up and has been reliable and I drive it all over the place(...until they salt the roads).
Also, for reference, truck has a 1" body lift and the 3" air filter with a drop base clears the hood no problem.

Does that 2bbl adapter mix the plane's somewhat??

And yes, very nice look with the stock valve covers and all.

 

[Digger556]

So you never went to a single plane?

Long story.

I ordered a single-plane TorkerII from Edelbrook last June. It took 5 MONTHS to get it to me. It was a ridiculous series of backorder notices and pushed shipping dates. In all likelyhood, I will never buy another Edelbrook product after how I was treated. It ruined my entire summer. I tore the engine down immediately after ordering the manifold, then the backorder notices came. First it was two weeks, then a month, then another. I never put the engine back together because they kept saying the manifold was going to ship soon.
I missed car shows and camping trips all summer. Then I got left in a pinch when my wife's car got totaled (not her fault) and we only had one vehicle to drive. Then got screwed again when I needed to replace the injectors on my 7.3 diesel and my backup vehicle was still laying in pieces.

When the new manifold finally showed up, it was 12°F outside and too cold to install it. I got so fed up with everything, I decided to sell the engine and move in a new direction, which I'm working on now.

 

[migs]

Does that 2bbl adapter mix the plane's somewhat??

And yes, very nice look with the stock valve covers and all.

Thanks! No, the two side are completely separate, there is gasket material running down the center between them.
Now I will say it wasn't completely perfect right from the start, took a little time running, driving, self learning and dialing in settings to get to the point it's at.
I could see where some people might get frustrated when they bolt these things on and expect to drive away. I was a little skeptical at first until I gave it some time. Plus I also had to deal with a bad ignition coil I didn't know I had that was causing issues right from the start. I almost threw in the towel but the Holley tech support was pretty good and figured it out right away.

 

[toddz69]

Long story.

I ordered a single-plane TorkerII from Edelbrook last June. It took 5 MONTHS to get it to me. It was a ridiculous series of backorder notices and pushed shipping dates. In all likelyhood, I will never buy another Edelbrook product after how I was treated. It ruined my entire summer. I tore the engine down immediately after ordering the manifold, then the backorder notices came. First it was two weeks, then a month, then another. I never put the engine back together because they kept saying the manifold was going to ship soon.
I missed car shows and camping trips all summer. Then I got left in a pinch when my wife's car got totaled (not her fault) and we only had one vehicle to drive. Then got screwed again when I needed to replace the injectors on my 7.3 diesel and my backup vehicle was still laying in pieces.

When the new manifold finally showed up, it was 12°F outside and too cold to install it. I got so fed up with everything, I decided to sell the engine and move in a new direction, which I'm working on now.

Good lord, that sucks. A Torker II is something I would think would be sitting on shelves all over the country - apparently not.

Todd Z.

 

[Digger556]

Good lord, that sucks. A Torker II is something I would think would be sitting on shelves all over the country - apparently not.

Todd Z.

You would think.

I don't know what happened in their supply chain. I have seen things like this happen in my own industry. BUT you don't jerk the customer around, stringing them along for months promising the shipment is just around the corner, all the while holding their money.

There was no apology, no offer of discount. Just treated like a number and a dollar.

 

[OX1]

Thanks! No, the two side are completely separate, there is gasket material running down the center between them.
Now I will say it wasn't completely perfect right from the start, took a little time running, driving, self learning and dialing in settings to get to the point it's at.
I could see where some people might get frustrated when they bolt these things on and expect to drive away. I was a little skeptical at first until I gave it some time. Plus I also had to deal with a bad ignition coil I didn't know I had that was causing issues right from the start. I almost threw in the towel but the Holley tech support was pretty good and figured it out right away.

Yes, not my first time tuning, so I understand. I am going to slap the carb back on when I first fire this thing up. My side tank uses an electric pump for carbs, set to only transfer fuel from side to rear tank. Going to hook that up first to make sure everything else is OK first.

Sounds like enough data points that there is a good chance the dual plane will work, just not guaranteed.

 

[bmc69]

Thanks! No, the two side are completely separate, there is gasket material running down the center between them.
Now I will say it wasn't completely perfect right from the start, took a little time running, driving, self learning and dialing in settings to get to the point it's at.
I could see where some people might get frustrated when they bolt these things on and expect to drive away. I was a little skeptical at first until I gave it some time. Plus I also had to deal with a bad ignition coil I didn't know I had that was causing issues right from the start. I almost threw in the towel but the Holley tech support was pretty good and figured it out right away.

Took the HP a long time to get the idle right on my current project..and that was with me helping it along some too.

I agree about Holley's EFI tech support. Their EFI tech forum is awesome and their tech guru Danny Cabral must have it linked to his cell phone...he's on top of questions in a flash and really knows his chit.

 

[toddz69]

Their EFI tech forum is awesome and their tech guru Danny Cabral must have it linked to his cell phone...he's on top of questions in a flash and really knows his chit.

Haven't heard that name in a long time - Danny knows his FSB Bronco stuff really well too!

Todd Z.