body prep/paint

[Salgood]

Hey guys,

I hope some have you been where I am at now currently. My bronco was sandblasted, then sat in my garage for awhile here in Montana - low humidity. We have been slowing tacking minor body work - but it has been 6-9 months. I had a discussion with a local body guy who told me I needed to get primer on the body ASAP to keep surface rust from popping. He told me to spray it down with acetone and then spray Epoxy primer on it - then continue to putt along with the body work. So I was able to get the hood, fenders, grill, tailgate done - but I have not tackled the body - the guy who was helping me spray it is off to school so I have no gun to shoot with as it was his dads spray gun. I had another reputable guy stop by and throw me a quote to finish it - no way I can afford it. We did seam seal the body with POR -15 - the guy that stopped by told me I need to take it out as the primer/paint will not adhere to it - also the body has some minor surface rust showing up now.

So I went to CarQuest and bought acetone and 5 cans of etching primer - I was then out working on removing the POR-15 seam sealer on the rear quarter panel - for good measure I applied more metal ready to zap the rust - then I started to panic that it may affect the primer. I am now thinking I need to just buy a gun and spray the Epoxy as I have been reading other posts with the Gurus saying not to use spray can Primer ever.

So my questions are:

1) I am going to eventually spray a single stage yellow - what gun would you recommend for me to use to spray Epoxy and singe stage yellow paint? I am hoping not to spend much as I will only be using it for this. Any good website to buy it from?

2) Is that metal ready going to screw things up? Does the POR 15 seam sealer need to come out? DO I acetone over the metal ready?

3) Anywhere special I should by paint online or do I go to the local shop??

Thanks in advance guys for your tips with this!!

BC

 

[needabronco]

I bought a Devilbiss Finishline gun for about $200, it's a decent gun, I've had several body guys comment how nice it is also... It came with 3 tips for shooting primer and regular paint.

As far as shooting epoxy, I'd just use a direct to metal high build primer and kill 2 birds with one stone. Your going to sand off 90+% of the epoxy primer anyway so why pay the extra cost for it? It sounds like you need to sand out the surface rust that you have first to ensure proper adhesion, and so there's no surprises down the road. The metal ready you already used 'shouldn't' hurt anything, but the POR seam sealer needs to be prepped. I'd call the POR dealer or a paint store and ask them. Seam sealer is supposed to be applied over primer.

As far as buying product, I'd suggest going to the local autobody paint store and talking to them. Ask for the jobber rate, it's usually about a 5-10% discount. Tell them what you ultimately want, and what your budget is and they can direct you from there. Stay away from the cheap paint, you went this far to do it 'right' so buy decent paint! For single stage I used PPG, DCC line and am VERY happy with the results, but be prepaired for the sticker shock.

 

[pcf_mark]

I'll throw some stuff at you to get you going but you are on a long road of self education. Not a problem as long as you are patient and handy.

You should have put primer on the body after it was sand blasted to prevent flash rust on the surface. You did not but nothing you can do about it now. Acetone is only going to remove oil and grease but not any surface flash rust. You need to run a DA sander or sand the surface by hand to do that but it is easy work because it does not need to be pretty just sanded to a an even sheen with no rust. Blow off the parts with air and then wipe down with DX330 or similar wax/grease remover. I would not attemp to put any primer on top of POR 15 because it is so smooth I do not think it will stick but I never tried.

1) I am going to eventually spray a single stage yellow - what gun would you recommend for me to use to spray Epoxy and singe stage yellow paint? I am hoping not to spend much as I will only be using it for this. Any good website to buy it from?

It is unlikely you will find a gun that will spray both. The color will need a small tip like 1.3-1.5 but the primer will need a 1.5-2.0 tip. If you try to use a gun with too small a tip to spray primer it goes on like crap and you spend all your time sanding it smooth. Too big a tip for color and run the crap out of it. Go to http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/ and let your wallet decide. You can buy a very inexpensive gun that will do the job (but it will not last forever and you can never get parts) or spend a fortune. They have package deals also.

2) Is that metal ready going to screw things up? Does the POR 15 seam sealer need to come out? DO I acetone over the metal ready?

As I said I would not primer over anything - it goes on first. If you can sand or use a wire wheel to remove the seam sealer stuff I would. Spray can primer is worthless and will come back to haunt you later. The trick with all paint products is they must be compatable bottom to top. It could look great now but you put on the color and the primer lifts off in bubbles. Pick a system (PPG Deltron, House of Kolor etc) and use their products start to finish. Also read the tech sheets on the products website - this will tell you what sticks to what and how to prepare the surface.

3) Anywhere special I should by paint online or do I go to the local shop??
I used www.tcpglobal.com for the last several years with great success. Unbeatable prices (at the volume you and I buy) and quick delivery. Also their tech people are hands on - if you call you get an actual body man on the phone. They will also help you select your material and paint guns.

General steps:

1) Repair the big stuff - patch panels, dents, filler work (80-180 grit)
2) Strip, metal prep, primer
3) Block sand primer with 180
4) Fix your mistakes or small stuff that the primer shows
5) Primer again
6) Wet sand with 600
7) Base coat and clear or single stage color

 

[allenfahey]

The Devilbis Finishline gun should be good enough but I like my Sata's but they are very $$$. You'll be fine with the Finishline. You can also sell it once your done your paint job.

I would make sure the POR-15 is feathered out and sanded with 320 and prime directly overtop of it. I would also sand the body down with 180 to remove any flash rust. Then wipe it down with phosphoric acid (same as the metal ready) Dupont also sells it as metal conditioner. Wash with water on a rag and dry with anotherone. Followed by blowing it off good and dry. Then apply epoxy overtop of it.

Don't ever apply epoxy overtop of etch primer and don't use a high build primer overtop of bare metal without etch primer. There are tech sheets you can get from the place that is selling the products.

Another tip for painting yellow. It is very hard to get coverge so I would use a white primer. Yellow covers white the best.

 

[needabronco]

If your high build primer is also a 'direct to metal' primer you can shoot it right over bare metal. That's what it's desinged for. Regular high build, needs something undernieth it...

 

[Salgood]

This is great info - thanks guys. I am patient and handy -

I'll plan on using a white primer!! There is hardly any flash rust on the body - I know a light hand sand will take care of it....

I am a little worried abot the seam above the rear quarter panel - I know there is rust deep down in there! That is why I was trying to get the metal ready way in there to zap it - I am guessing that it will reappear down the road....thoughts on this? I guess I was hoping the POR 15 would seal it permanently -

As of now I am thinking I will continue to wire brush it (POR 15 Seam Sealer)out and zap the seam with the metal ready - I will then make sure and wipe the metal ready off with a watered down towel and then follow up with anotherone (never heard of that). Can the metal ready sit for days or does it need to be removed right away??

Thanks again - all your recommndations are great and useful for me!!

BC

 

[Salgood]

What about this kit - looks like two guns - one for primer and one for paint - I can get in at $129 bucks - thoughts?? I am looking at Part# DEV 802343.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/finishstart.aspx


Thanks again!

BC

 

[needabronco]

This is the one I have, it works great. http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=DEV+FLG-647-WB

I had a freind who paints cars compared that gun to his $600 SATA! He actually liked it better after he borrowed it to shoot a couple of bumpers.

I've been warned away from buying cheap guns. And while this gun is 'cheap' it still has the features of a better gun, and will last a long time... If you KNOW you will only use your gun once, then I suppose it will work fine, it just might not atomize the paint as well.

After a couple of paint jobs, it'll be retired to my primer only gun and I'll upgrade to a nicer gun.

 

[Salgood]

That looks good to me - I'm assuming the diffrent tips allow for the different material sprayed.....I look forward to tackling this and getting er done - thanks again for your help!