Borgeson Steering upgrade note

[Eoth]

I always consult this board before my next "upgrade" to see what others have done and hopefully avoid any "pitfalls". So here is a little contribution...
When installing the Borgeson box they tell you that you will need their "DD universal joint". Great, so I bought it.... Well As I discovered "DD" refferes to the shape of the shaft that slides into the upper piece of the lower telescoping steering shaft. SO... If you power steering is from 74 or 75 you do not have a "telescoping" steering shaft (safety feature that came out in 76) and therefore the Universal Joint will not fit (plus it is too short). So I went out and bought a used 76-77 lower steering shaft.. My next problem was a mating issue at the Rag Joint (not sure if it was due to a PO or you cannot interchange the two styles of shafts). After I mixed and matched parts (and some redneck engineering) I made the connection.
So now everything goes together and "works", however the steering shaft is telescoped so far out that only about 1.5" (out of about 12" possible) is still engaged. Not liking that, I went to flea-bay and was able to buy a longer "DD" steering shaft for another 12 bucks... Now everything works as it should...
I hope all that makes sense.. Without the proper telescoping steering and the longer "DD" shaft my afternoon project turned into two weeks of down time waiting for parts.

 

[hucklburry rev2]

I grabbed that lower telescoping portion off a 78/79 Bronco when I pulled the 4x4x2 box, if 12" was too short, what was the length that worked? Curious as I can measure mine before I get into all that when I install power steering. Thanks!

 

[75junebug]

I started down that path too.....had my 75 steering shaft custom cut to fit the 2"BL(read homemade cut and weld), had a 76 ebay shaft, and then later a 79 shaft.....Installed a 79 tilt column, and a 4x4x2 box.....Nothing fit, in any combination...called WH and told them what I had, 4 days later had a install.....all it takes is a little money

 

[DirtDonk]

Generally speaking, you can often times create your own DD lower shaft by grinding two flat sides on your existing 3/4" solid round shaft.
With body lifts added to the mix, not sure all stock original shafts would be long enough. But that method works out well some of the time.
We have a video on the process with some helpful details. Which, of course, I can't find at the moment to link to.
Hate it when that happens...

Sounds like you got yours all working now. Sorry you had to go through so much work, but as long as the end result is satisfying and satisfactory, you're ahead of the game.

Paul

 

[garberz]

The best way to do it is, remove the tag joint coupler from the upper shaft, exposing the 3/4"x 36 splines. You can buy the complete telescoping lower shaft, complete with U-joints on each end. Just a little bit of grinding is all that's required.

Mark

 

[Eoth]

Generally speaking, you can often times create your own DD lower shaft by grinding two flat sides on your existing 3/4" solid round shaft.
Paul

Good idea but my solid round shaft was a couple inches short. (I cant believe I just typed that)

You can buy the complete telescoping lower shaft, complete with U-joints on each end. Just a little bit of grinding is all that's required.

Mark

Yes you can and it looks really nice and easy. HOWEVER I blew by parts allowance budget on the initial purchase of the box, hoses and coupling. (had to go as cheap as possible)...

 

[Eoth]

I grabbed that lower telescoping portion off a 78/79 Bronco when I pulled the 4x4x2 box, if 12" was too short, what was the length that worked? Curious as I can measure mine before I get into all that when I install power steering. Thanks!

Ok.... The measurement of the installed shaft from the Rag Joint to the box is approx 15.25". The maximum amount that can be effectively retracted into the outer part is 5". It is approximately 6" from the steering box to the "outer retractable part". So.... In my case 11" would be the minimum length for full engagement into the telescope and connecting to the box. My DD shaft was only 9" so I went and got a 18" shaft and cut it down to 12" (one inch extra).

 

[ammonnhonduras]

I do not have power steering. I just put a 2in body lift on my 68 Bronco. Now the steering shaft will not stay in its joint. It keeps popping out when I turn the wheel. It appears to be in all the way when I connect it and the joint is horizontal, but when I turn the wheel, it appears that as it rotates to horizontal, the bottom knuckle of the shaft seperates from flush in the housing follwed by the top one and the shaft comes out of its housing. The angle seems to keep it from staying in all the way. I worry that the angle is too steep. Does this remind you of your experience?

 

[DirtDonk]

I just put a 2in body lift on my 68 Bronco. Now the steering shaft will not stay in its joint. It keeps popping out when I turn the wheel.

The angle seems to keep it from staying in all the way. I worry that the angle is too steep.

Hey ammon, welcome to classicbroncos. Sorry to hear you're having a dilemma. Not everyone gets to deal with that fortunately, but unfortunately you get that "honor" instead.

But I'm not sure why you're worrying though. It sounds like a done deal that your shaft is at too steep of an angle and too short to continue working as originally designed. So really nothing to worry about, as you're NEVER going to drive it that way, right?;D
You either have to correct the existing parts (not sure if that's possible) or replace them with parts that will let you drive safely again.

Corrections/modifications might include lowering the steering column (not impossible, but not much room), raising the box (pretty much a non-starter with a stock box), or lengthening the shaft. I think that last one is the easiest of the lot, but not sure if lengthening would get you where you need to go given that you're still working at perhaps a too-steep angle.

Those replacement parts would either be a junkyard steering shaft with u-joint or an aftermarket replacement with double u-joints and a slip shaft to account for both the angle and the length issues.

Any chance your body lift was more than 2 inches? Like maybe there was already a taller insulator in there now with your 2" spacers on top? Doesn't sound like a common issue, but might be possible given how many people might have owned your Bronco before you.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[EricLar80]

What ever you do, make sure you use locktite on all screws that are used to hold the shafts in place.

Eirc

 

[ammonnhonduras]

Hi Paul. Thanks for the response. I installed a "2in body lift". Ordered it when I ordered a 3.5 SL from James Duff. There are two pieces to the body lift. A softer blue donut and a hard plastic black spacer. Those put together measure 3in total. Not that it matters I guess. I dont really want to have to cut the body behind the dash to lower it. Id rather just move the box up. I will look into doing that. Can I use the same box? If I plan to put in power steering, is now a good time to just go about that instead of the fix? Am I going to run into the same thing?

 

[Eoth]

Relocating the steering box is not something to be taken lightly and I wouldn't recommend going down that path (big can of worms). As mentioned by DirtDonk using a double "double u-joint" to relive the angle issue is probably the way to go. HOWEVER you would now be customizing things for this specific setup. In the future if you change to power steering, you are going to have to start over again with an entire new steering shaft and overcome the same issues again. I recommend that if your time and budget allows, you bite the bullet and convert to power steering.

 

[bronconut73]

way cheaper to just get a new shaft from One of the vendors here on the screen.

Duff and WH has them.

Easy peasy.

Remove old and replace with new. Mine is fantastic.

 

[DirtDonk]

There are two pieces to the body lift. A softer blue donut and a hard plastic black spacer. Those put together measure 3in total.

Sounds like replacement body cushions and the body lift spacers. Which means that you would remove the original rubber insulators and use only the new poly ones. Is that what you did?
Definitely don't want three pieces on top of the frame mounts. Just the two on top and one on the bottom.

Id rather just move the box up. I will look into doing that. Can I use the same box?

Probably not. Like said, it's a can-o-worms. And might not even be doable with a stock box, since it's short enough that lifting it up might let the pitman arm interfere with the frame before you get any real advantage in height.

If I plan to put in power steering, is now a good time to just go about that instead of the fix? Am I going to run into the same thing?

Yep, now's sounding like the best time. If you have to modify, you might as well go in all the way and get what you ultimately want to end up with.

Paul