Buddy Has A BAD Tranny Problem HELP

[pgdyk]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum but myself have owned a 67 bronco in the past. Sorry this is going to be so long. Anywho, my buddy has a 77, it's in great shape for being from washington, and then now being in Alaska where he bought it about 2 weeks ago, where we are stationed. It has a fuel injected 351 and what I believe to be a C4 automatic, a 3 core radiator, deep sump pan with cooling fins and a shift kit. It was the first heavy snow of the season and a 3 day weekend. He's locked front and rear and we took it on some deep trails on base for a nice joyride after having some fuel pump problems cured. We got a little stuck in some fallen over logs and dead brush and the snow didnt help out. We must have spent about 45 minutes rocking back and forth in drive and reverse, red lining quite a few too many times. We got unstuck eventually and made it to the road but then noticed a lot of boiling, hot tranny fluid spewing out of the inspection cover, right where the engine bolts to the bellhousing, all and all i think we lost about 1 - 2 quarts. We let it sit and called a buddy to pick us up so I could go get my truck and tow it home. Started it up to see if it was still puking and it was, a lot, neutral or park, figuired it was just still hot. We got my truck and came back to the truck, it should be cool by now, it had fluid on the dipstick so we started it up. and put it into gear, nothing. Reverse, nothing. Nothing, it wouldnt move in any gear. The shift lever for the column is still attached to the tranny and does move, I made sure of it. It was only dripping slightly out of the inspection cover in neutral or park. This was odd also, it looked like steam was blowing out of the inspection cover, like a line had come undone in there and it was blowing smoke out of a tube, whatever it was it was definatly under slight pressure. It's sitting outside now and we have no idea where to start except add tranny fluid and go from there. Any Ideas? Thanks.

 

[broncomaster]

Sounds like the front seal blew out but, the tranny may be blown. they don't like to be rocked back and forth to a redline too much.

 

[broncnaz]

I agree fried the front seal and toasted the clutches does the yranny fluid look burnt?

 

[pgdyk]

Thanks for all the replies, if it's still leaking a ton we'll have to repace that seal. Fluid looks alright, just a little low, it shifted fine and didnt slip before it couldnt move anymore. The fluid that came out was just hot and red, it wasnt black or metallic or anything. We're going to replace the lost fluid and see if it will move under it's own power. I just don't understand how there isnt power, to any gear, we couldnt have burnt through those clutches and bands that fast. It must be loss of fluid related, right?

 

[eb66to77]

Sounds like the front seal blew out but, the tranny may be blown. they don't like to be rocked back and forth to a redline too much.

Ah yes, the old rock it til you drop it technique. Did I mention I have a a c4 in my garage right now that has one gigantic clutch? Yeah, I do

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Thanks for all the replies, if it's still leaking a ton we'll have to repace that seal. Fluid looks alright, just a little low, it shifted fine and didnt slip before it couldnt move anymore. The fluid that came out was just hot and red, it wasnt black or metallic or anything. We're going to replace the lost fluid and see if it will move under it's own power. I just don't understand how there isnt power, to any gear, we couldnt have burnt through those clutches and bands that fast. It must be loss of fluid related, right?

If you blow 2 qts out the front seal, that is enough to make it not go into gear. You MUST make sure its FULL before trying to engage it into gear, & it MUST be running while checking the dipstick oil level.

 

[jurob]

what does the fluid smell like? probably all burnt up with clutch material. pan probably full of clutch sludge.

 

[bushman]

I had a seal leak on me once after a rebuild (C4). When I put the converter in, it pushed out the tension spring in the seal lip.

Either way, I got it home just as it started to disengage from gear, put a new seal in, filled it back up and continued to beat on it. That's 13 years ago and still running fine. If the fluid seems clean, I'd say you're good.

 

[pgdyk]

The fluid smelled fine and looked fine, I could hardly tell it was on the dipstick it was so clean. There was fluid on the dipstick while in park and running (thats what the dipstick said) when we checked after it puked it all up. At first when it wouldnt go into gear i thought that the pump was shot but when it was running it was really leaking bad and when it wasnt running it was just a dribble, hopefully it was just a fluid level problem and of course the seal. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for all the ideas.

 

[firehawk]

Does anyone else think of something the devil made when they hear or read tranny? I always call them a trans or transmission.

 

[pgdyk]

I hate to bring back the dead but we finally had the time to pull my buddies c4 out of his bronco. The drop was a success but we have discovered that the seal we were going to replace (the input shaft seal) was in great shap, nicks or tears. I'm stumped. Somebody please help us out! thank you.

 

[PaulS]

Look the converter over very closely. It may have ballooned or cracked where the tubine blades are welded. It may have cracked where the snout is welded to the converter. Look at the studs - where they are welded to the outer covering. Do they show wear or cracks? Last, take it in to a shop that can check it for leaks. Check the pump for loose bolts or cracks. Check the pump gasket for breaks or tears. You can by-pass all the work of checking the coverter by just buying a new one. A NEW one stands a better chance of being good, clean, and ready for years of excellent service.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

I hate to bring back the dead but we finally had the time to pull my buddies c4 out of his bronco. The drop was a success but we have discovered that the seal we were going to replace (the input shaft seal) was in great shap, nicks or tears. I'm stumped. Somebody please help us out! thank you.

The seal can be in perfect condition but if the garter spring is broke or missing it will leak. Listen to PaulS comments also.

 

[pgdyk]

The seal when we took it off looked to be in great shape, the spring was still intact but my buddy said the spring looked a little worn out (I had to leave and didnt get a chance to look at it) I'll look over the torque converter tonight. I do believe it is a new TC because, not only is it painted orange, the previous owner had installed a heavily modified 351w with a cam (what got me thinking it could possible be a higher stall TC?), fuel injection, the whole 9 yards. Also the transmission has a deep sump pan, what feels like a shift kit, and a cooler. I'll keep you guys posted as what we find out tonight. But we will most likely, due to lack of funds, put the seal in, inspect the TC and install the trans again with some good atf and see if she leaks. Thanks for all the help guys! Keep that info coming.

One more thing, where are these pump bolts you are talking about? When we took the TC off there are 8 or so bolts behind it, but dont those just hold the bellhouse on or what?? I'd like to inspect the bolts and the seal (might as well replace it) as well so we don't have to do this all over again. Thanks a lot. Phil.

EDIT: Is there a limit of wear for the TC snout? I can run my finger over the area where the seal rides and can feel very little valleys. Maybe we could pick up a sleeve of some sort? Or is a new TC in store? I'll take pictures tonight.

 

[PaulS]

The same seven bolts that hold the bell housing also hold the pump. Check the torque, it should be 20-24 ft. lbs. Lube that new seal with Vaseline (on the lip - inside) before instalation. It might also help to put a thin (.010") film of Lock-tite "Gasket Maker" around the inside of the seal bore on the pump. It will seal it and hold it in place. They have been known to push out. Lubricating the seal and converter snout keeps the seal's lips from burning off before it gets oil to keep it lubed. VERY IMPORTANT!

The sleeves are called "Speedi-Sleeves" and can be used on worn snouts. You vave to be sure that the sleeve is over the area that the new seal will ride on. If it isn't seated all the way when the sealing area is reached you can peal the flange on the sleeve off.

 

[pgdyk]

The problem continues! We have put everything back together. The lubed up seal went in nicely, everthing is bolted up right, filled the torque converter before we installed it. We drained the tranny fluid and replaced the filter, nothing too shocking inside just a little sludge. Filled it up. Go to test drive it. Nothing! It wont move at all, not in any gear. Shifter linkage is adjusted properly, I can feel and hear the clicks when I move the lever. We made sure the tcase wasnt in neutral (which i thought was the problem last time it wouldnt move) I can feel it going in and out of 4wd and into 2wd in the correct pattern on the stick. It has enough fluid, its full on the dipstick. We let it run in neutral and park for 5 minutes each so fluid would circulate. Still cant get it to move. It wont even clunk, each gear feels like youre going into neutral from neutral. Any ideas on this? Thanks guys. Phil