C4 Tranny Removal/Install questions...

[75Denver]

This is a two part question.

1. I've been reading through many of the past archives on this topic and it sounds like everyone has thier own methods of removing and installing. I've taken out the exhaust, starter, and drivelines. Last night we were going to remove the t-case but couldn't get to the top two bolts between the tc & adapter. Not to mention the crossmember bushing bolt closest to the shifter (impossible to get to even through the tunnel hole). We ended up just cutting the nut off the bolt and removing the entire crossmember from the frame. The problem now is should I just remove the t-case and tranny at the same time? I know it'll be heavy as S but I'll have a tranny jack from HF. Or, does anyone have any suggestions for removing the top two t-case bolts? I know, it seems like it should be easy. I didn't think my hands were that big.

2. This is more of a concern than anything at this point. I was reading the Chilton and Haynes manuals and they recommended wrapping the tranny ends with bags to avoid getting dirt inside. The trans I bought was a rebuilt 77 Bronco c4 but has been sitting without proper cover. When I bought it, I put a bag over it and have it inside my garage. Will there be any future ramifications of it not being covered before I got it? It looks really clean but I know it doesn't take much to clog the valve body, etc. What are your guys' thoughts?

Oh, and does it matter putting a 77 c4 into a 75 Bronco? I know the 77 internals have heavier duty bands but is there going to be an issue with the torque converter and flexplate?

 

[Viperwolf1]

If you support the bottom of the trans with your jack and lower it some you can get the top bolts out. Just have to watch the radiator/fan and firewall clearance as the engine tilts back. I like to pull both out together though. When I put them in I like to do them separately. It's hard to get the C4 and converter lined up with the D20 pulling it to the driver's side. A body lift will help with future top bolt clearance.

It's always good to keep the trans sealed. If you are concerned that there may be anything bigger than dust in there you could always pull the pan off to check. I don't recommend using any solvent near the clutches or bands. Should be no difference in the '75 and '77 C4. Converter and flexplate hole spacing just need to match each other. Some had 10.5" and some had 11.4" pattern.

 

[jedblake]

I drop my C4 and D20 t-case together as they are easier to handle as one unit. I also use the HF trans jack w/ good luck. If I remember right the trans w/ T-case sitting on the jack will not roll under the frame rails, the bell housing must be tilted down. I would suggest replacing the poly bumper bolted to the cross member, they are usually pretty deformed.

 

[75Denver]

If you support the bottom of the trans with your jack and lower it some you can get the top bolts out. Just have to watch the radiator/fan and firewall clearance as the engine tilts back. I like to pull both out together though. When I put them in I like to do them separately. It's hard to get the C4 and converter lined up with the D20 pulling it to the driver's side. A body lift will help with future top bolt clearance.

It's always good to keep the trans sealed. If you are concerned that there may be anything bigger than dust in there you could always pull the pan off to check. I don't recommend using any solvent near the clutches or bands. Should be no difference in the '75 and '77 C4. Converter and flexplate hole spacing just need to match each other. Some had 10.5" and some had 11.4" pattern.

Thanks for the tip on tilting it back. When I was under the truck and saw the t-case drop I thought it was putting too much stress on the bellhousing to engine bolts. I'll try that method. I was thinking of doing the t-case seperately at first so if getting to the top bolts isn't an issue pulling it out, then I'll go your route putting back together.

If I pull the pan all the way off, do I run the risk of anything falling out? I'm not a trans wizz (imagine that%) ) but I thought I read somewhere that there are tiny steel balls and pins. That wouldn't be accessed through dropping the pan would it? I guess I'll see what t/c size I have once it's pulled. Is it as simple as finding one the correct size pattern? Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you posted.

 

[75Denver]

I drop my C4 and D20 t-case together as they are easier to handle as one unit. I also use the HF trans jack w/ good luck. If I remember right the trans w/ T-case sitting on the jack will not roll under the frame rails, the bell housing must be tilted down. I would suggest replacing the poly bumper bolted to the cross member, they are usually pretty deformed.[/QUOTE

I'm glad you recommended the poly bumpers. I ordered some from Tom's just in case. I didn't even think that bell-housing wouldn't fit through the frame rails, so I'll watch for it when I cross that bridge. Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[Viperwolf1]

If I pull the pan all the way off, do I run the risk of anything falling out? I'm not a trans wizz (imagine that%) ) but I thought I read somewhere that there are tiny steel balls and pins. That wouldn't be accessed through dropping the pan would it? I guess I'll see what t/c size I have once it's pulled. Is it as simple as finding one the correct size pattern? Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you posted.

There shouldn't be anything loose under the pan. The check balls and other small parts are inside the valve body. You'd have to remove the filter before anything could fall out.

You should have a 164 tooth flexplate with either a 10.5" or 11.4" bolt pattern. Converters can be found easily for either size flexplate. The 10.5" bolt pattern flexplate is nearly impossible to find anymore.

If you have trouble getting the bellhousing out from under the frame you can simply remove it from the C4. The five large bolts (outer ring) under the converter hold it on.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

This is a two part question.

1. I've been reading through many of the past archives on this topic and it sounds like everyone has thier own methods of removing and installing. I've taken out the exhaust, starter, and drivelines. Last night we were going to remove the t-case but couldn't get to the top two bolts between the tc & adapter. Not to mention the crossmember bushing bolt closest to the shifter (impossible to get to even through the tunnel hole). We ended up just cutting the nut off the bolt and removing the entire crossmember from the frame. The problem now is should I just remove the t-case and tranny at the same time? I know it'll be heavy as S but I'll have a tranny jack from HF. Or, does anyone have any suggestions for removing the top two t-case bolts? I know, it seems like it should be easy. I didn't think my hands were that big.

I drop em out and put them back in separately, only I separate them at the trans. (6 extension housing bolts are easier to get to).

When they go back in i use a 3/8 x 16 bolt with the head chopped off about 2.5" long, cut a slot in it on the tip with a hacksaw (optional) so it can be removed with a screwdriver. Screw it into the rear, lower left bolt hole to be used as a guide and to align and protect the extension housing gasket during assembly. And Gasgasinch(R) on the gasket itself.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

...Is it as simple as finding one the correct size pattern? Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you posted.

Shouldn't be an issue if its factory trans. There was very few differences between the 75-77. Worse case scenario is you might have to update the flexplate/ringear assy on the engine.

The other worries about the dirt issue were covered pretty well by Viperwolf.
While you have the pan off, stick a magnet in there. Is the old trans for sale?
~BH~

 

[blubuckaroo]

I usually pull the radiator out so the fan won't hit it. Take care when dropping the transfer case out since it is hard to judge where the balance point is. I've dropped mine on the floor twice!?:?

 

[av bronco]

I usually pull the radiator out so the fan won't hit it. Take care when dropping the transfer case out since it is hard to judge where the balance point is. I've dropped mine on the floor twice!?:?

This is important,have somebody watch the fan as you lower it down. I take them out seprately and can have them out easily in 45 minutes but my junk is all clean "low mileage" -I even have a special tool box with all the sockets, wrenches-ect.

 

[75Denver]

Hey guys-
Thanks for all the input. I already bought a new 164 tooth flexplate from Tom's, since there was A LOT of grinding going on with the last trans. I'm really hoping the t/c won't have a different measurement. Wish me luch. As for the fan hitting the radiator, I pulled that out since my transmission cooling lines welded themselves in over time. They pretty much twisted to the point of destruction when I tried backing them out. I'm about to order replacements s.s. lines.

BH- The transmission I bought was rebuilt down in Vegas and already assembled as a unit...just need to add the t-case. I'm hoping I won't have too many problems with the bellhousing clearing the frame rails. When you say you remove them at the transmission, is that the trans to adapter or trans to bellhousing?? Also, if I'm only mounting the D20 to the adapter, should I use the Gasgasinch(R) on both sides of the gasket or in place of the gasket? Bear with me if some of these questions seem obvious to you. I'm learning as I go;D . Oh, as for the old trans, I'm going to keep it since I'd like to put it back in someday. I'm trying to keep the original aspect of the Denver intact...to a degree%) . I saw something weird the other day while crawling around the bellhousing and will have some surprise photos coming soon.

ViperWolf- Is there any cleaning solution you'd recommend since I should avoid solvent near the bands? I'll try the magnet idea just in case there's metal but what would get the dirt? Of course, that's assuming there's any in there.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Viperwolf1]

The clutch materials are not compatible with solvents. You can wipe down the inside surfaces with a clean cloth soaked in trans fluid. The pan can be cleaned with brake cleaner. Try not to get any lint stuck in there. If that doesn't do it you should really disassemble it to get it all cleaned out. A filter inline with the cooler is always a good idea as well as the magnet in the pan.

BH had a good tip with the guide pin. I installed studs at the front of the D20 and rear of the trans. It holds the gaskets in place and allows you to lift the D20 in place by hand. Once the studs are through the adapter it's easy to spin a couple nuts on to keep it in place.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Hey guys-
Thanks for all the input. I already bought a new 164 tooth flexplate from Tom's, since there was A LOT of grinding going on with the last trans. I'm really hoping the t/c won't have a different measurement. Wish me luch. As for the fan hitting the radiator, I pulled that out since my transmission cooling lines welded themselves in over time. They pretty much twisted to the point of destruction when I tried backing them out. I'm about to order replacements s.s. lines.

BH- The transmission I bought was rebuilt down in Vegas and already assembled as a unit...just need to add the t-case. I'm hoping I won't have too many problems with the bellhousing clearing the frame rails. When you say you remove them at the transmission, is that the trans to adapter or trans to bellhousing?? Also, if I'm only mounting the D20 to the adapter, should I use the Gasgasinch(R) on both sides of the gasket or in place of the gasket? Bear with me if some of these questions seem obvious to you. I'm learning as I go;D . Oh, as for the old trans, I'm going to keep it since I'd like to put it back in someday. I'm trying to keep the original aspect of the Denver intact...to a degree%) . I saw something weird the other day while crawling around the bellhousing and will have some surprise photos coming soon.

ViperWolf- Is there any cleaning solution you'd recommend since I should avoid solvent near the bands? I'll try the magnet idea just in case there's metal but what would get the dirt? Of course, that's assuming there's any in there.

Thanks again everyone.

The Bell should clear the frame just fine, if you have headers it could be more difficult.

I separate the x-fer case @ the front section of the adapter housing. You will not be able to remove the bell housing until the trans is out and the TC is removed.

Gasgasinch on both sides of the paper gasket.

...but what would get the dirt?

You would get the dirt with a lint free cloth sprayed with Brakleen. with the pan removed and the adapter housing off of the rear. Better check the pan before turning the trans upside down, because if there is any dirt, you could dump dirt deeper in the trans it where you cannot access it without taking it apart.


~BH~

 

[75Denver]

Ok guys- So this project has been sitting on hold for nearly a year and I'm back where I left off. Thank you to all who replied before! I've removed the radiator, finally sprung for a tranny jack since the floor jack was central danger zone, removed all the linkages and lines, but CANNOT get to the top bolts for the t-case shifter linkage! I've tried everything from lowering the rear of the t-case/tranny, fishing through the tunnel cover in the cab, socket extensions, to short sockets and wrenches!! In other words, I'm stuck. Can I simply pull the tranny back far enough and drop the entire assembly WITH the t-case shifter intact? I'm working solo so I'm not sure what's catching but I'm pretty certain it's the shifter contacting the tunnel cover hole in the cab.

I've also tried removing the t-case from the adapter but still can't reach the greased up bolts on top. If it's this hard to remove with it under the rig, should I just plan on putting the new one all back in as one entire unit? I know you guys recommended remove all together/install separately but what's my deal? Am I the only one who can't get to these bolts? Any help is good help...unless you're going to comment on how inept I am Because I'm already feeling that way:-[.

Thank you for your suggestions and time.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Those top bolts are hard to reach especially without a body lift. I think you can lower it with the shifter in place. Just need to move the trans back about an inch or two after unbolting the converter. Make sure your exhaust pipes will allow it to come straight down.

 

[Rustytruck]

You can remove the shifter. Just move the shifter boot from under the floor board and unhook the shifter spring. From the top remove the knob, and the top boot. at the bottom of the shifter working from the top is a rounded cap nut. unscrew that nut and pull the shifter from its mount leaving the shifter mount still attached to the tranny adapter.

 

[73azbronco]

lower the front of the tranny, then jack up one side of a front or rear axle to get clearance to get it out from under the frame/truck. Block wheels as well.

 

[75Denver]

Thank you to everyone for the help and knowledge in getting my transmission in. Due to all the grease and road grime from the P/O's lack of maintenance and attention to detail, it made this job 10x harder than expected. Also, working in such tight quarters was a real pain. I was able to remove the old tranny by myself only to find a chunk of the bellhousing missing and a near loss of my left hand!! Close call but I saved all digits before the the t-case smashed them! I had to remove the adapter/t-case w/ the adapter just to reach the greasy shifter bolts. Once in there, the rest of the job was a breeze!

With the help of a buddy to push the new trans up to the engine block I was able to guide it in and bolt it up on the first shot...which makes me think something is not right. Never has anything been that smooth with this vehicle so my question to you guys relates to the torque converter.

Because the trans jack was too tall with the tranny on I couldn't slide it under the Bronco. So I jacked up the pass-side and slid the tranny up under the rocker panel and got it in position. However, I didn't lock the torque converter (TC) on while it was out from under the vehicle. I added 1qt of ATF and while under the vehicle (at a really awkward angle, I slid the TC on the input shaft and turned it until I heard it drop in. Now, everywhere I've read and all the shows I've seen, it says you'll hear 2 clicks before it's properly seated. As I slid it on, I was holding the bottom of the TC and spinning it. I'm wondering if b/c of that I didn't hear a pronounced click and instead what I thought was the 1st click was in fact the 2nd click and it properly sat in place. Any thoughts? I went back to the old transmission and even though things seemed loose in it, I was able to spin the old TC on until it sat all the way in. Once that was seated and I heard the 2 clicks I sat the flexplate in place and took a measurement of 3/4" gap between the flexplate and the front of the bellhousing. It matched that of the new one, so do you guys think the new one is seated properly? Does anyone know what the gap is between the flexplate and the bellhousing? Of course, that last measurement would be a reading outside of the vehicle b/c once in and bolted the distance should be the same (just internally smashed). Anyone?

I'll try and get some pics posted here soon but everything is post-installation so pics pertaining to the questions cannot be found. Thanks again for all the help. And ViperWolf, I've searched all your posts and you are a wealth of knowledge!! Thank you for all your great posts. Too bad for me you don't live in my town;D. Also, my Denver came from Aurora...I might have already told you that. Hope to hear from someone soon. Thanks.

Brody

 

[Viperwolf1]

There are actually 3 things that need to mesh when the tc is installed; stator support splines, input shaft splines, and pump flats. It usually takes a couple rotations to get it all lined up but you may have got lucky. The real test is this: when the bellhousing is bolted tight to the engine (don't do this if the converter is pushing back on the flexplate) the converter should be free to turn without the studs touching the flexplate.

Unfortunately I don't have an accurate measurement for depth but as I recall the end of the studs need to be about 1" into the bellhousing.

 

[75Denver]

There are actually 3 things that need to mesh when the tc is installed; stator support splines, input shaft splines, and pump flats. It usually takes a couple rotations to get it all lined up but you may have got lucky. The real test is this: when the bellhousing is bolted tight to the engine (don't do this if the converter is pushing back on the flexplate) the converter should be free to turn without the studs touching the flexplate.

Unfortunately I don't have an accurate measurement for depth but as I recall the end of the studs need to be about 1" into the bellhousing.

What happens if when I aligned the bellhousing to the engine I aligned the converter bolts through the flexplate holes? Did I just smash something? I feel that the converter would have been pushing the flexplate since I aligned the TC/flexplate bolt holes AND the bellhousing bolt holes all in one straight shot.