Dana 44/9" or Dana 60's? Why and where to buy?

[Gummi Bear]

I wouldn't cut them if I were you.

They should only be 5-6" wider than the stock EB axles. I'd fix that with wheels and fenderflares instead.

Cut them down, and you're looking at custom axleshafts ($$$). Bust one on the trail, and you're sunk if you don't have a spare...

 

[tasker]

Wlat, where did you find that one, locally?

 

[ChrisinWV]

I decided to keep the 9 and use Superior shafts and a nodular chunk.
l Kept the EB 44 as I too plan to stay under the 37" mark.
I did box and truss the axle to eliminate any bending or twisting issue, and i am sure I won't break a tube.
I used Warn axles and Superjoints.
I will be running arbs front and rear to allow myself to unlock when needed.
I think this will make a big difference when trying to turn sharp with the front end, which is the demise of a lot of shafts.
It all depends on what you want, but from what you said, this will not primarily be a rock crawler.
I personally would keep the small axles and build them accordingly.
I plan to wheel mine hard and think it will do just fine with a bit of my help.
Good luck and I too bet that is a 44 in the pickup.
Chris in WV
THis isn't Walt from MEB is it?
Haven't seen you in a while.

 

[OX1]

I wouldn't cut them if I were you.

They should only be 5-6" wider than the stock EB axles. I'd fix that with wheels and fenderflares instead.

Cut them down, and you're looking at custom axleshafts ($$$). Bust one on the trail, and you're sunk if you don't have a spare...

I agree, why go custom shafts, especially in the front (only need 35 spline outers and even that is maybe on 37/38's), The rear 60 can be bored and go 35 spline, but even then it's been done vs completely custom shafts of 35 spline and EB width. Plus H1's are real cheap when you don't have to recenter.

As for the 60 front, I've seen plenty (parted a couple) of snowfighter 250's with the 60 front in this area. Being NH, it's more likely that not it is a 60 front.

 

[crawln68]

That is what I did with my rear FF 60, bored the spindles out and got a set of 35 spline axle shafts.

I too would NOT narrow those axles. If you do any off roading, you will love the wider axles!

 

[XT700]

Tasker,
Found it in Maine, saw your post on Craigslist, thinning down the herd?

ChrisinWV,
Yes, I was at the Roundup this year but did not bring the Bronco, may not be ready this year either if I try to get this swap done by June.

Okay, so narrowing the axles is a bad idea:-X . I am still concerned about overall width, if it is obvious that the tires are out beyond the flares I don't have a chance in hell of driving it on the street around here. That's one of the first things they look for, right after bumper height which is another possible problem.

What's the deal with recentering the H1 wheels, for some reason I was under the impression that because of the huge backspacing on an H1 wheel that would take care of the problem. Are you recentering to gain backspacing or have less backspacing?

Thanks, Walt

 

[OX1]

Tasker,

What's the deal with recentering the H1 wheels, for some reason I was under the impression that because of the huge backspacing on an H1 wheel that would take care of the problem. Are you recentering to gain backspacing or have less backspacing?

Thanks, Walt

Yes, you should not have to recenter, hence why I said the wheels would be cheap since the centers are 50$ a wheel (and you won't need em).

I thought someone said it was less than 2" over stock using fullwidth 60's and stock hummers. Thats close enough, even if you had to add a bit of edging or something to the outside edge of flares

 

[XT700]

That's what I had been told as well just an extra inch per side with H1 wheels. Hopefully RaginCajun or Crawln68 will chime in with the reason for recentering their wheels, maybe for a little extra width. Are there going to be clearance issue with the stock H1 wheels? I don't think the tires will rub since they are out on the ends of the full width axles, but what about hitting the brakes or tie rod ends?

Thanks, Walt

 

[crawln68]

You will need to re-center the H1 rims. Each H1 rim has 7 inches of back spacing! In order to not have to re-center them, you would need to run dually hubs to offset the massive back spacing of the H1 rim. The full width axles are a total of 6 inches wider than the stock EB axles. (3 inches on each side) If you ran the stock H1 rim, you have a total of 14 inches of back spacing. (7 inches on each side) So you would loose 4 inches of width on each side.

 

[XT700]

Not to confuse the issue but-
The full width are 6 inches wider than stock-
Currently I am running 3.75 inches of backspacing-
Stock H1 wheel have 7 inches of backspacing-

Now with that stock H1 backspacing, the total would be 2 inches less width, however if you go to 4 inches of backspacing then you are 4 inches wider than stock(I think that is what Rajin posted he was going to do. 5 inch backspace would be 2 inches wider than stock. If my addition is correct.%)

How much backspacing are you running?

 

[crawln68]

I am running 4 inches of back spacing on my H1's. These pics will kind of give you an idea of how far my tires stick out. These are 39.5 x 13.50 Irok tires on the 8.75 wide H1 rim.

 

[XT700]

Damn, that is one sweet looking Bronco!

That width looks like it would be a problem around here, however maybe there is tire in a 37/12.50 that would work. That would narrow it up just a little more. Is 4 inch backspacing about all you can get with these axles? Maybe squeeze another 1/2 inch out of it? What does a stock Hummer axle look like, must be real clean on the ends to be able to have that seven inch backspacing. I suppose worst case I could fab up some sort of extension to attach to the flares for road use, something that would come off easy once I got to the trail.(Would that be a fender flare flare?;D )

Thanks for the pictures, Walt

 

[OX1]

You will need to re-center the H1 rims. Each H1 rim has 7 inches of back spacing! In order to not have to re-center them, you would need to run dually hubs to offset the massive back spacing of the H1 rim. The full width axles are a total of 6 inches wider than the stock EB axles. (3 inches on each side) If you ran the stock H1 rim, you have a total of 14 inches of back spacing. (7 inches on each side) So you would loose 4 inches of width on each side.

Isn't that the point, to maintain the smaller width?? Running stock H1's on HP D60 front with high steer, stock twin piston calipers is doable, unless the tires hit something, but then why wouldn't they hit something with the stock 44 @ the same WMS to WMS. Maybe you put extra stress on those kingpins, but I'll take overstressed kingpins over any ball joint any day.

Here is a pirate thread showing a stock H1 on the ford D60.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247268

Even looks like it was a 78/79 D60 with those massive calipers brackets.

http://www.texasoffroad.net/galleries/lonestar/album176?page=1

 

[kb6677]

Isn't that the point, to maintain the smaller width?? Running stock H1's on HP D60 front with high steer, stock twin piston calipers is doable, unless the tires hit something, but then why wouldn't they hit something with the stock 44 @ the same WMS to WMS. Maybe you put extra stress on those kingpins, but I'll take overstressed kingpins over any ball joint any day.

Here is a pirate thread showing a stock H1 on the ford D60.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247268

Even looks like it was a 78/79 D60 with those massive calipers brackets.

http://www.texasoffroad.net/galleries/lonestar/album176?page=1

AMEM Ox. I had a computer glich last night and could not log on-gotta luv it when DSL is "down". The original poster on this thread WANTS to be narrow to get close to coverage, the H1 wheels will allow this. To add without reading the above links, the tie rod ends and mounts on the 60 may need a little grinding but that is it. This combo has been run around the southeast anyway since the late 90's. The first D60 eb bronco I know of around this area was done in '96 using the H1 wheels and 12.5x38 TSLs-his tires WERE covered by the flares.

 

[tonto]

Fullwidth Dana 44 with 17"x9" beadlocks w/4.5" B.S. = 78"
Fullwidth (79) Dana 60 with 17"x9" beadlocks w/4.5" B.S = 81.5"

 

[crawln68]

My main concerns about using a stock H1 rim with 7 inches of back spacing are you would have a worse scrub radius on your tires and add stress to your kingpins. With 4 inches of back spacing your tire will be almost perfectly centered over your kingpins. And will the 7 inches of back spacing clear the radius arms of an EB? I've never test fit the stock H1 rims on an EB and turned to wheels lock to lock to see if they will hit. Might also hit the inner fender and frame? It seems like the would. I guess tire size would play a big factor in that. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[OX1]

My main concerns about using a stock H1 rim with 7 inches of back spacing are you would have a worse scrub radius on your tires and add stress to your kingpins. With 4 inches of back spacing your tire will be almost perfectly centered over your kingpins. And will the 7 inches of back spacing clear the radius arms of an EB? I've never test fit the stock H1 rims on an EB and turned to wheels lock to lock to see if they will hit. Might also hit the inner fender and frame? It seems like the would. I guess tire size would play a big factor in that. Just thinking out loud here.

I don't see a worry for a rig that weighs about half of what that kingpin axle was designed to undergo, especially since it's been done quite a while ago on fullsize rigs and no massive complaints of king pin breakage I've ever read. (In fact, I've never read about a broken king pin, may have happened, but I've never seen it).

EDIT; OK, I played with it a little and I see what you are saying on clearances. You still will be 2" outboard on either side over a stock axle. ?:?

 

[XT700]

It certainly appears that with the correct backspacing I can make this work. There seems to be a lot of hype about the H1 wheels, I searched around on the American Racing Wheels site and they have a number of wheels with the correct bolt pattern and 4" backspacing. Is it because of the internal beadlocks? This does seem like a good solution to avoiding rolling a wheel off at low pressure without having the external locks which unfortunately I have been told are not street legal here. Maybe I should just move.%) I really appreciate all of the info. you guys are providing.

Thanks, Walt

 

[XT700]

Another question for you all, I am planning on taking advantage of the mass buy from Sexton Ofroad. Should I get a set of Cage arms that use the stock C wedges or will it simplify the installation by using the weld on brackets that Cage sells for the solid axle swaps. Will articulation be less with the brackets then with the c-bushings?


Thanks, Walt

 

[crawln68]

I am building my 79 D60 front axle right now and will definitely be using the weld on brackets with my Cage arms. When I built my 3/4 ton D44, that I am using now, I bought new wedges from JD and ground them down to fit the 3 inch axle tube of the D44. I will NEVER do that again! I must have used that grinder for a week straight (a few hours a day) to grind those damn wedges down enough to fit correctly.

According to Jim ( the owner of Cage) you don't lose any articulation going to the weld on brackets. Here is a picture of his rig with a D60 front and weld on brackets that he sent to me.