Dana 60 gears

[ntsqd]

Thoughts on best brand for Dana 60 ring & pinions? OEM Dana would be my preference, but I have yet to find anyone listing the 4.30 ratio. Assuming that Dana 4.30's are NLA who is the next best brand to use?

 

[Yeller]

I have had exceptional service from Motive. It’s what I’m running in the J Truck and Broncno rear axles, Dana 60 and 14 bolt respectively.

 

[ntsqd]

In case you're wondering, a friend of mine sent me an email saying "aren't you looking for a rear D60 for the Wagon?" Kind of, sort of, but not in any big rush. Then he forwards to me a 3 year old offerup ad for a D60 out of a '68 F-250, and the guy still has it! For $200 it's worth going to look at. So maybe the Wagon will end up with a rear 60 after all, but it'll be an even slower build than the Wagon itself.

 

[ntsqd]

No 4.30's that I could find on the Motive page. Yukon and Revolution are all that I'm finding. I had a feeling when I looked into this 6+ months ago that I should have bought the Dana gears that I found then, but that was hard to justify doing.

 

[Yeller]

I’d give Quick Performance a call, they offer a set at a reasonable price, not sure who the actual manufacturer is but have had nothing but excellent service on everything I’ve bought from them. I’ve had decent service from Yukon but don’t feel they are the “upgrade” they are touted to be and not worth the extra coin. But if it’s what’s available I would run it.

I thought I’d remembered seeing some available in 4.30. There is for a high pinion…. Replacements for the oem Ford offering in super duties. Not the same lol.

 

[ntsqd]

I had family issues, so I couldn't go look at the D60. My friend wanted to go anyway so I told him what I was thinking to do. Then I get a text from him "it's in my truck, $120" So I guess that I own another Dana 60......
The guy was converting the '68 F-250 that he drove in HS to leaf sprung (!) SD axles.

I'll call Quick this week, they don't list the 4.30 ratio for a D60. I thought that I'd seen a listing on their page in online searches and maybe it was for the SD axle, but it isn't listed here: https://www.quickperformance.com/Dana-60-Ring-Pinion-Gear-Set_p_20391.html

 

[dmoses42]

Found this on Ebay...https://www.ebay.com/itm/3726817662...d=link&campid=5335857059&toolid=20001&mkevt=1
Not sure if this is what you are after, but it says standard rotation and all the other ones I saw on Rockauto were for front diff and reverse rotation.

 

[ntsqd]

I found that too. No idea what brand it is, Was hoping for some OEM gears, but that is a slowly dying hope.

 

[dmoses42]

I scrolled down the post and it says its QP brand, in the description

 

[ntsqd]

Saw that too. Means nothing to me, but I'm far from an expert of this sort of thing.

 

[ntsqd]

Contacted Quick Performance, the only 4.30's that they have access to are Yukon. They said that Dana doesn't offer this ratio in the aftermarket, yet I'm fairly sure that when I looked into this ~9months to a year ago that I did see Dana gears offered.I had a fleeting thought that I should buy them then, but had thought this project was too far off to be spending that kind of money on it.

 

[jamesroney]

Don't throw good money after bad. I don't know why you are set on 4.30, unless you happen to have a Front axle in 4.30.

Either way, 4.30 is a horrid ratio for the D60 standard rotation. Nothing uses it. 4.10 is ubiquitous, and 4.56 is also very popular.

But if someone gave me a 1968 F250 Dana 60...I would be hard pressed to use it. They are 30 spline, low pinion, small tube, huge drum brake boat anchors. Unless you are going to chop off the ends and make it semi-float. Then it's a maybe.

Save yourself from yourself. Go buy a used correct width 14 bolt FF from a Chevy, in the ratio you need. You can thank me later.

 

[ntsqd]

This is NOT in an EB. See my "Wagon" sig file link.

4.30 because that it what the math says my chosen tire size needs to run at the OEM RPM vs. Speed relationship already programmed into the PCM. I'm trying to leverage all of the work done by the PCM's programmers to extract the maximum range (mpg) from this vehicle. Front (well both ATM) are 4.27's, but that ratio was never made for a D60. 4.11's are too tall by a lot and 4.56's are marginally too short. My absolute worst case scenario fall-back position some time down the road when this axle comes online will be to re-gear the recently re-geared front to 4.56.

Absolutely, positively do not want a 14bff. Far, far too heavy for this use. Even a D60 is going to be overkill about 70% of the time, but building a FF D44 is just silly. At the very minimum it will get 14bff spindles and SAI 5x5.5 wheel hubs. I wouldn't be changing the spindles except that I've not ever found FF 5x5.5 wheel hubs to work with D60 spindles. I'll never, ever build a semi-floating axle. Might rebuild one or re-gear one, but never intentionally build one from scratch. It will be getting Explorer RDB's if I can figure out how to do it without costing a fortune or a huge bunch of mass. It will be getting a Tru-Trac, undecided on if 30 or 35 spline. 35 seems like the easy button since literally everything will be new, but I did that for the FSB's D60 and it ended up being a royal PITA, so I'm a bit gun-shy about doing it again.

 

[jamesroney]

This is NOT in an EB. See my "Wagon" sig file link.

4.30 because that it what the math says my chosen tire size needs to run at the OEM RPM vs. Speed relationship already programmed into the PCM. I'm trying to leverage all of the work done by the PCM's programmers to extract the maximum range (mpg) from this vehicle. Front (well both ATM) are 4.27's, but that ratio was never made for a D60. 4.11's are too tall by a lot and 4.56's are marginally too short. My absolute worst case scenario fall-back position some time down the road when this axle comes online will be to re-gear the recently re-geared front to 4.56.

Absolutely, positively do not want a 14bff. Far, far too heavy for this use. Even a D60 is going to be overkill about 70% of the time, but building a FF D44 is just silly. At the very minimum it will get 14bff spindles and SAI 5x5.5 wheel hubs. I wouldn't be changing the spindles except that I've not ever found FF 5x5.5 wheel hubs to work with D60 spindles. I'll never, ever build a semi-floating axle. Might rebuild one or re-gear one, but never intentionally build one from scratch. It will be getting Explorer RDB's if I can figure out how to do it without costing a fortune or a huge bunch of mass. It will be getting a Tru-Trac, undecided on if 30 or 35 spline. 35 seems like the easy button since literally everything will be new, but I did that for the FSB's D60 and it ended up being a royal PITA, so I'm a bit gun-shy about doing it again.

Yup, I knew it wasn't EB.

Avoid anything that looks like a D44 full float. Nobody makes a decent locking hub, and the shafts end up being 30 spline. I've bought and broken everything I can find. As soon as you accept 5-1/2 bolt circle, you've done yourself in. I'm running the big hub 35 spline 5x5.5 Dynatrac hubs on my 60...and they are "Just OK" Ended up with drive slugs out back, which kind of kills the towing feature.

I understand your aversion to semi-float...but it is really the way that everyone has gone if you are not carrying any weight.

I was just trying to get you there on the cheap. 35 spline shafts on a D60 spindle is not fun. The D61 spindle does the trick. Of course the 70U can handle the 35 spline, but then you already said you didn't want the extra weight.

Too bad you don't like semi float. The 04-06 Dodge Ram SRT Dana 60 rear with discs is pretty nice, and might be about the right width.

Have fun!

 

[ntsqd]

The Wagon was born with a rear D44 and with only 33-10.50's they're reasonably hard to kill. Not impossible, just a bit harder. It would not surprise me if this thing ends up towing up to a 25' Airstream (or similar) at some point in the future. And that's what this D60 is pointed at.

As far as a Semi-Floating axle goes, I've had (one was enough and it wasn't catastrophic) and seen enough SF failures (MISF's WAS catastrophic!) to know that I'll never intentionally build a project vehicle axle configured that way. The traditional FF design works and is robust, but I'm not committed to it. I'm not in a hurry. I have time to really look into the Unit Bearing option and weigh it's pluses & minuses. At my current understanding of them I think that that design would be more than suitable to this application. First and foremost will be that wear replacement parts are either COTS that are easily modified to work or straight-up COTS. So far what I know of the Unit Bearing version it isn't able to do that, mostly because of the 5x5.5 BC, but I don't know what I don't know about them. yet.

The t/c is an NP241C (RHD), so flat towing isn't too much of a concern. Unlike it was with my various yotas where the only safe way was to drop the drive-shaft from the pinion flange. Which is partly why the one being used that way got sold.

I picked the R&P as the first purchase because it was looking like the long pole.

 

[ntsqd]

Poking around the net it would appear that Yukon is the only option at this time.

 

[jamesroney]

I have time to really look into the Unit Bearing option and weigh it's pluses & minuses. At my current understanding of them I think that that design would be more than suitable to this application.

I thought you were a technical guy.

The unit bearing is the single most idiotic rotating bearing assembly to ever be invented. The Spicer 3/4 float idea was an abysmal failure in the early 50's only to be re-invented to become the greatest 2021 axle DESIGN failure in F150 Max Tow history. If 2 TSB's, and a Full Recall doesn't convince you...then you are not paying attention.

Please take off your purchasing agent hat, and install your engineering hat. The unit bearing is legendary for it's ability to enable shaft rotation with significant angular deflection. But this can only be sustained IF the axle shaft has an additional degree of freedom. This "works" in the front axle, because the steering CV joint allows for angular misalignment in both planes. Every front wheel drive vehicle with a unit bearing would be dead at the side of the road if it didn't have a CV bell sitting immediately next to the bearing. And this is the critical design flaw of the unit bearing on a live rear axle. The don't work, they can't work, and the more you use them...the worse they work. (very much like a carpool lane...)

The new Jeep Wrangler / Gladiator is a unique exception, because no one uses them to actually carry any weight. But they will start failing soon enough. Once the bearings lose preload, (and they always will) then the wheel deflects, then a bending moment is introduced into the torsional shaft thru the splines. It is guaranteed catastrophic obsolescence. Please don't.

 

[ntsqd]

Spidertrax's Ultra4 entries show me that that they'll take some significant short term abuse. No idea how often they get replaced in racing. If they've proven to be a problem or a potential problem then every race I'm sure. The question becomes if that abuse is scaled way back then how long can they live? From Ford's problems with them maybe not long enough. Curious that they didn't test the snot out of such a different design before releasing it. Likely internal politics and economics conspired to make that not possible, so the purchasers are the testers.
Clearly what we need are the crowned splines used in cambered Cup Car axle housings....... or we do it like the Desert Racing buggy's with out-boarded CVJs and put a 935 CVJ or similar between the wheel flange and the axle shaft.
Those same forces are also acting on a SF flanged axle, so you can see where my bias against those starts.

 

[Yeller]

Early bored out unit bearings were failure prone, the spindle was too thin and would stretch. Later versions with splined spindles faired much better and in a 4000# axle weight class vehicle I wouldn’t have an issue using them. Someone needs to make a “Grand National” style hub that is available 5x5.5, 6x5.5, and 8x6.5 and a 35 spline axle, then we would be getting somewhere. Ruff Stuff supplied some for me several years ago, they may have sourced them but they were cool. Used standard GN bearings and seals, was able to support up to 40 spline axles, used a wave spline on the hub the wheel flange bolted to, wheel flange was broached for the drive flange. Could get any bolt pattern we wanted 5.5” and larger in diameter. Not seen them since, they were uber cool, strong, fixable and rebuildable. All from billet aluminum.

 

[toddz69]

Speedway does (or did - I think they might be out of business) made a Grand National floater with 5 x 5.5 hubs and 35 spline axles. Didn't make the other bolt patterns afaik.

Todd Z.