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Do I need Dual Batts or not?

Dual Batteries????

  • Yes - The dual Battery setup is a must

    Votes: 8 17.4%
  • No - No, Monkey you are trying too hard to make this difficult.

    Votes: 38 82.6%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .

MnkyBiz

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
3,758
Loc.
Northern VA/DC
Ok all,

I am about ready to go back to 1 battery.

Common consensus needed! I am running a Bronco with no winch, but will eventually add one......in a year or two or so.

I will run a stereo & lamps up front.

Do I really need to run dual batteries, or will the 3G and the Optima be just right for me??????

Please be blatantly honest here!

I am ready to get rid of the dual setup for simplicity's sake!

MnkyBiz
 

JWMcCrary

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
5,001
I just bought the billet aluminum battery tray and a Blue Optima for mine. I have no intentions of running dual batteries. I ran dual batteries on a Toyota with an 8000 warn winch and constantly had problems until I went with a single battery. I know a lot of people run duals with no problems, but I don't think it's necessary.
 

70_Steve

Old Guy
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
8,317
I read through yours and RRRAAAYYY2s discussion on how to wire stuff. Kinda sounds like, you add up the max current draw on all your stuff, and make sure you have enough battery reserve to cover the draw. Dunno what kind of stereo you're planning on (the 300 amp base kicker, etc.), but if it's not excessively obnoxious I can't see needing two batteries for now. When you add the winch, then revisit the power requirements.
 

TOFIC

Bronco Wrencher and Fixer
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
3,740
Loc.
Redcliff Alberta
Monkey Monkey Monkey some day I wonder about you.
Now listen up, you don't need dual batteries. period.
Modern electronics and alternators make this unneccessary, and puts weight (no-no stuff) on the front axle.
Now be a good monkey and phone Raymond and tell him what you are doing and he will send you a mucho fine, bueno type, magnifico setup that will do all the work you want and then some
TOFIC
 

pinenuts

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2001
Messages
145
Loc.
Hereford, AZ
I have thought about adding a second battery ever since I installed my winch. It seems to me that all the current required to your electrical loads is ultimately provided by the alternator. If you are using more current than your alternator can provide then your battery (s) will run down eventually. With two batteries it will just take twice as long. I installed a 130 amp 3G to charge my single Optima Red Top and have had no problems. One obvious advantage to a second battery (if isolated from the first battery) would be redundancy.
 

Steve

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
2,986
Loc.
Grand Junction, CO
No, No, No, you don't need dual batteries, especially with your setup. Dual batteries nowadays are kinda like dual shocks; some people think you really need them, others think they look cool, but neither are needed with the batteries and alternators available today.

I've been running a single battery in mine since I got it, and I do have a winch that I use with the type of wheeling I do. I've never had a need for a dual battery.
 

elemetal

Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
381
Loc.
Oakland, CA
I thought the main reason for a dual set-up was the "back up" concept, kinda like in the marine world. You take you boat out for the day, drop anchor and hang out listening to tunes all day the go to start the motor to go back to shore and.... "Uh-oh".

I always thought this was the reason for two, lock one out and use it for a reserve start after too much winching or camplife.
 

BUCKETOBOLTS

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
1,605
Loc.
Salisbury, NC
My philosify is "the simpler the better." Usually works 99% of the time for most everything. No use in torturing the money. ;D
 

YelloTx73

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
1,419
Loc.
Katy/Galveston, TX
I have a dual battery setup in mine, but thats cause the PO put it in, I've been questioning if its even setup right. Anyone have a diagram? ;D
 

Landshark

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
440
Loc.
California
MnkyBiz said:
Ok all,

I am about ready to go back to 1 battery.

Common consensus needed! I am running a Bronco with no winch, but will eventually add one......in a year or two or so.

I will run a stereo & lamps up front.

Do I really need to run dual batteries, or will the 3G and the Optima be just right for me??????

Please be blatantly honest here!

I am ready to get rid of the dual setup for simplicity's sake!

MnkyBiz

Simply, add up the amount of amperage that will be used, match it up with the battery and Alt and then go with what you need. Meaning, if you vehicle stock runs on average 45 amps, lights 1 set of 150 watt each lights 22amps,
winch could be as low as 70amps, as high as 460 (we'll say 255 for the sake of it), Stereo & Amp (350 watts total) 26 amps.
Total it all out and you get a conservative 348 amps, now if you have a
250 amp alt with a really good batt and are drawing all that amperage, you will wear out the batt & alt pretty fast, but with dual batts & high output alt you'll be able to handle that fine.
Check out Warn's page on amp draw, pretty interesting stuff.
http://www.gowarn.com/xd9000i-winch.asp?
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Landshark, you want a job as sales rep? LOL.

Dual batteries are pretty much a must for trucks equipped with winches, plows, or really good stereos. Unless you do as Landshark has said and buy a 350amps alternator. I have them for sale, real HD stuff used on EMS equipment all over the world. They start at just over $1200US. It is a little more expensive than a second battery. One of them is even really effecient and only requires 25hp to turn it at idle. But if you have a stock motor, I have a friend that can sell you a 500HP EFI monster small block. I can hear it now " But honey, I need the blower motor to turn the new alternator" But in all seriousness....

Dual batteries are useful because they help the alternator in a heavy load situation. We have done tests using our test benches several times. We have two batteries that power both our starter tester and old alternator test bench. When a starter with a 300amp draw is tested, while an alternator is being tested at the same time, the alternator's output increases to about 90amps while the starter is running. Which means the batteries are making up about 210amps of the load. Then when the staters is disengaged the output drops off to 60amps, then tapers to 10amps or the float load of two batteries. This takes about a minute.

Now if you consider that most 3g's put out about 90amps at idle (not mine, but most others), you still are going in the hole with the load of a winch and the vehicle's other loads. Depending greatly on how hard the winch is being worked. But this just means a voltage drop of 1 or 2 volts, something a half decent alternator can handle easily. Doing this for minutes will cause some minor damage though. Doing it for 10-20minutes will cause great amounts of damage.

Now if you go with just a single battery, the whole picture changes. Now the alternator will be required to make up more of the 300amp load. Likely being asked to put out more than it is capable of. The voltage will really drop, to the point you see lights dimming etc. This causes damage to the alternator, to the winch, and to anything running on electricity in your vehicle. Our big body 3g's can pretty much handle the load with the engine revved to over 1500rpm. you would still get some voltage drop as they only produce slightly over 225amps. (shameless self promotion)

You can bump up the alternator to a real high output unit, say something with a 125-150amps at idle. (more shameless promotion) But this is only going to help slightly, not really solve the problem. We do have HD EMS units that are putting out about 190amps at 1000 engine rpm, 260amps max. Which would pretty much solve the problem foresure. (They are only about $650US, to you guys) So again you get into cost and available engine power. You end up with dual batteries being the cheapest way of addressing the problem.

Now why don't daul batteries work? Usually because someone has been misinformed on how to set it up, or is using the wrong setup, etc. It is very important for the batteries to have only one stud used for the positive take off, and the negative takeoff should come from the opposite battery. This way the batteries are made into one large cell. Problems arise when power is taken off both batteries (or the batteries have seperate grounds), as it causes them to become unbalanced, which is the death of them. It costs a little more to wire this type of setup up, but it should give years of trouble free power.

There is my two cents worth.
Also here is link to what I can do with dual batteries, LOL (more shameless self promotion): http://www.worldchat.com/~sva-sales/ And the answer is yes, she does ride the bike.
 

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MnkyBiz

MnkyBiz

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
3,758
Loc.
Northern VA/DC
Ok, going by all the inputs, here is my present case scenario:

Vehicle 45 Amps
Stereo 12 Amps
Amp 33 Amps
Bazooka 12 Amps
Lamps 22 Amps

If I don't plan on a winch now, then I am looking at 124 Amps needed.

The 3G Idles at 90 Amps, and the Red Top Optima provides a float of 90 amps as well, so the 180 is higher than the planned 124 so I should be good, right????

When I wheel at the beach, I go with a guy who has a HPoo & a H##P & both have winches, so I'll just provide tunes!!!

If this is my planned amperage, I should be ok, right?

Thanks all!

Bill
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Nope. You will be ok, sort of. Here is a link to my FAQ section, about sizing an alternator.
http://www.svapowerproducts.com/html/how_big_of_an_alternator_do_i_.html

You have a bit of a cushion in the fact your stereo does not require steady power, it will be jumping up and down, as the bass hits. So my though is you want an alternator that is putting out about 125amps at idle, and your stereo is your cushion. :)
 

SnwMnkys

Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
524
Loc.
Orem, Utah
Im running dual Yellow tops, also have the 3g alternator, and the Northwest Products Dual battery solenoid.

I got the Yellow tops at $60 apeice new so i figure why the hell not run dual. I also have a Warn 9500Ti, EFI, High Torque starter, stereo, external lights, internal lights, and probably more that i cant think of.

It will be nice to jump start myself if i ever have to. If i buy a welding setup i could weld off the batterys too.
 

Buckin74

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
682
Loc.
San Diego
Seems to me that having dual battaries is like having a spare tire.

" Better to have it and not need it" than to " need it and not have it"

Can't make it more simple that that
 

Landshark

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
440
Loc.
California
MnkyBiz said:
Ok, going by all the inputs, here is my present case scenario:

Vehicle 45 Amps
Stereo 12 Amps
Amp 33 Amps
Bazooka 12 Amps
Lamps 22 Amps

If I don't plan on a winch now, then I am looking at 124 Amps needed.

The 3G Idles at 90 Amps, and the Red Top Optima provides a float of 90 amps as well, so the 180 is higher than the planned 124 so I should be good, right????

When I wheel at the beach, I go with a guy who has a HPoo & a H##P & both have winches, so I'll just provide tunes!!!

If this is my planned amperage, I should be ok, right?

Thanks all!

Bill

OK Biz, here's my take...... I would stay with one good batt and a higher amperage alt. My point is, you want to run an alternator that will not have to work at it's high to keep the batt charged. When that happens, you wear out both the batt & alt faster. If the alt will at a normal state throw out 124 amp or more while you have all the goodies on, you cool to go with a good Batt!!!!
If you do go with a winch, you had better look into a dual batt set up.
 
Last edited:

forestguy

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
414
Loc.
Reno, NV
I thought I was going to get so clairty from this post. All I see is a huge cloud forming above my head.
 

Landshark

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
440
Loc.
California
forestguy said:
I thought I was going to get so clairty from this post. All I see is a huge cloud forming above my head.

That's not from the posts, that's because of the snow forming :)
 
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MnkyBiz

MnkyBiz

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
3,758
Loc.
Northern VA/DC
OK,

Ray, I think I have the skinny now.

I already own the 3G and AM budget constricted BIG TIME! Momma is pregnant & baby will be here soon! I also already own the two batteries.

So, if I keep the 3G and keep both batteries but run them in parallel, I should be safe. That will give me 270 amps of reserve with the 3G running at idle. That will be more than enough for my estimated need of 124, and allow for some cushion should I add more gizmo's in the future, right? So, it should look like this (Fig1 - I think from all your input?). Also, you keep asking about the RF panel (Fig2). Slot one has a wire which goes to the Ignition Coil & one to the ignition switch. Slot two has the accessory wire from the Ign Switch & the brown wire to the 3G. The rest are labled there. The red wire leaving the panel goes to the + terminal.

***Ooops that fuse is in the wrong place. I meant it between the alt & starter! DOH!! But I still don't understand why I don't wire the Alt to the Battery?****

I am sorry if I am becoming a pain, but I like getting things right the first time I wire them. I absolutely hate a rats nest of wires!

Thanks
Bill
 

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Landshark

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
440
Loc.
California
MnkyBiz said:
OK,

Ray, I think I have the skinny now.

I already own the 3G and AM budget constricted BIG TIME! Momma is pregnant & baby will be here soon! I also already own the two batteries.

So, if I keep the 3G and keep both batteries but run them in parallel, I should be safe. That will give me 270 amps of reserve with the 3G running at idle. That will be more than enough for my estimated need of 124, and allow for some cushion should I add more gizmo's in the future, right? So, it should look like this (Fig1 - I think from all your input?). Also, you keep asking about the RF panel (Fig2). Slot one has a wire which goes to the Ignition Coil & one to the ignition switch. Slot two has the accessory wire from the Ign Switch & the brown wire to the 3G. The rest are labled there. The red wire leaving the panel goes to the + terminal.

***Ooops that fuse is in the wrong place. I meant it between the alt & starter! DOH!! But I still don't understand why I don't wire the Alt to the Battery?****

I am sorry if I am becoming a pain, but I like getting things right the first time I wire them. I absolutely hate a rats nest of wires!

Thanks
Bill

Yup, if you run dual batts with the 3g alt, you will be ok. You will have to get
a bigger alt or second alt to run everything along with a winch on full draw.
 
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