Electrical issue - no power to lights or instruments when ACC or On

[Steve83]

They're very handy, and inexpensive. But if I was doing it again, I'd use a single 10-position connector sourced from a later junker.

 

[crutch]

Ok, I got the new alternator hooked up and running. As you suspected the flasher/turn signal issue still persists. I did remove the "IGN" wire from the fuse box and it had no impact. It only turned off the instrument cluster lights.

I also ran a ground wire from the cluster to the firewall. I replaced the flashers and they are good but still having some weird issues with flashers and turn signals.

I was skeptical of the turn signal switch as it was really dirty and heard these are notorious for going bad so figured I could replace it while I was at it. After I tested under the conditions above and still had issues I then swapped out the turn signal switch with a new one. I made sure I connected it the same as the previous one but same issues. Below is what my symptoms are.

Ignition "Off"
Lights work
Flashers Only on: I just get the 2 solid turn lights in cluster no flashing
Flashers & Turn Signal On same time: the 2 solid turn lights in cluster turn off

Ignition in "On" position
Lights work
Flashers Only on: I just get the 2 solid turn lights in cluster no flashing
Flashers & Turn Signal On same time: the 2 solid turn lights get brighter.

Anyone have any thoughts? Seems like some wires are shorted together or wired incorrectly. I'm really at a loss at this point. Any recommendations on what to test would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Steve83]

I've only had it a few months and stripped everything apart except for the wiring to do some body work and now putting it back together. The fuse panel was all rusted out so I assumed some of my instrument panel problems were caused by the old fuse panel so I replaced it with a centech fuse box but no luck.

Was this symptom present when you bought the truck? Was it present before you started stripping things out? Was it present BEFORE you changed the fuse block? BE SPECIFIC.

I have double checked the wiring and think it's correct.

Then either triple-check it, or find someone else to take a fresh look at it - preferrably someone with automotive wiring experience, like a stereo/alarm installer. The entire truck has less wiring than some modern alarms, so it shouldn't take him long, or cost much.

...I'm getting 12v from the ignition switch in the on position...

Where exactly are you checking? BE SPECIFIC.

...but no lights or instrument panel in "On".

Exactly which lights do you expect to be on that aren't? Headlights? And what are you looking for to be "on" in the instrument cluster?

 

[crutch]

To give more background. Before I took the dash apart and disassembled the truck for the body shop all the lights, turn signals and flashers were working as expected. The truck sat for a couple months at the auto shop before they even started on some body repair and paint. I know that they hotwired the truck a few times to move it around and when I picked it up I noticed they left a jumper wire between the battery and the ignition coil. So they fried the ignition coil and the truck wouldn't even start any more. I replaced the ignition coil and then realized battery wasn't holding a charge so had battery tested it failed and had to replace it. Then it seemed like my voltage was running low and alternator wasn't charging as it should so had it tested and it failed and just recently replaced it. So I'm not quite sure what the body shop guys did but seems like I've had to replace quite a few components after I got it back. The fuse panel was all rusted out so I replaced it with the centech one. I'm confident the fuse box is connected properly.

I was initially having problems getting headlights, instrument lights, markers, turn signals or anything to work when IGN was "On" but through some of the ground recommendations from you guys I've fixed the initial issues. I now have all the headlights, brake lights, markers and instrument cluster lights lighting up however my problem now is with the turn signals and flashers. These are my current symptoms.

Ignition "Off"
Battery Voltage: 12.0V
Headlight Switch On: Headlights, tail lights, markers and turn signals all on
Flashers Switch On: I only get 2 solid turn lights in cluster no flashing. No front or rear lights flashing
Turn Signal Switch On: nothing (expected)
Flashers & Turn Signal Switches On same time: the 2 solid turn lights in cluster turn off. No front or rear lights flashing.

Ignition in "On" position
Battery Voltage: 11.88V
Voltage at Ignition Switch (Stud on back to ground): 11.68V
Headlight Switch On: Headlights, tail lights, markers and turn signals all on
Flashers Switch On: I only get the 2 solid turn lights in cluster no flashing
Turn Signal Switch On: I get 1 solid turn light in cluster but no flashing. No front or rear lights flashing.
Flashers & Turn Signal Switches On same time: the 2 solid turn lights in cluster get brighter.

Since the battery voltage was right at 12V I connected jumper cables to another car to see how things performed. The emergency flashers started working.

Jumper cables to another car
Battery Voltage: 13.50V
Voltage at Ignition Switch (Stud on back to ground): 13.22V
Headlight Switch On: Headlights, tail lights, markers and turn signals all on
Flashers Switch On: Works! Flashes in instrument and the front and rear turn signals flash.
Turn Signal Switch On: I get 1 solid turn light in cluster but no flashing. No front or rear lights flashing.

BTW, should the front turn signal lights be On when the headlight switch is on? Any other thoughts on where to start?

I have a mechanic buddy coming over tomorrow to get a new set of eyes on things but these seem like some strange symptoms so any thoughts on where to start next would be appreciated.

 

[crutch]

Some pictures of the dash wiring. Note: white wire is for the voltmeter that replaced the ammeter.

 

[707Bronk]

From your last pic, it doesn't look like the cluster housing itself is grounded. I see a green wire coming off which I assume is the instrument ground, but the ground is still isolated from the housing.

The indicator lamps themselves ground through the housing.

I've had similar problems and it turned out one of my flashers were the problem. I had installed the led indicator lamps and they didn't draw enough current to operate the flasher. The solution for me (I'll have to check, it's been a while) was adding a electronic flasher.

 

[crutch]

Thanks for the insight! I swapped out the LED turn signal lights in the cluster with the old original lights from another cluster and now the emergency flashers work! The turn signals still aren't quite right though. I'll do some more testing there.

For the ground on the cluster housing, that green wire is connected to the ground screw of the IVR and then to the ground of the voltmeter and then grounded to the firewall. I think that connection at the IVR should give ground to the housing? Does that seem right? Thanks for the help!

 

[707Bronk]

An electronic flasher should solve the low current draw problem for your led's.

I'm not sure the IVR grounds the housing, it may be isolated as well. For chits and giggles you may just try grounding the housing.

 

[crutch]

It works! Thanks for everyones help. Turns out the LED lights were definitely causing problems along with a flasher switch that was intermittently working/not working. Replaced the flasher switch and swapped out the LED's and I'm up and running again. I may take a look at the electrical flashers as a long term solution to run the LED's. thanks!