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Explorer EFI Fuel lines

garberz

Bronco Influencer
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
6,859
Loc.
Conejo Valley, Ca.
Ah, I trashed the tank when I sent the explorer to the scrap yard, thinking i kept what I needed. I kept the pump assembly though and bought a new one, thinking I'd go with a custom tank that used the explorer pump setup.

Out of curiosity, what should have I cut/kept from the explorer tank besides the pump?

Sounds like tanks inc is the way to go here.

Jeff

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You needed the flange on top of the tank, that the pump assembly bolts to. I cut a hole in the top of my tank, and bolted everything together. I was too much of a chicken, to do any welding! :)

Mark
 

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
You needed the flange on top of the tank, that the pump assembly bolts to. I cut a hole in the top of my tank, and bolted everything together. I was too much of a chicken, to do any welding! :)

Mark

I had my tank modified by fabtech in the valley. He had me take the tank to the local self-wash, rinse it really good with soapy water and a high pressure hose, and 3 hours later he was done with the welding modifications. It didn't smell at all after I cleaned it, and I felt kinda silly worrying about whether I should buy a new one out of fear for blowing myself up. He does it this way all the time... but I'm still not sure I could make the first arc myself!
 

hankjr

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May 11, 2013
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1,760
I had my tank modified by fabtech in the valley. He had me take the tank to the local self-wash, rinse it really good with soapy water and a high pressure hose, and 3 hours later he was done with the welding modifications. It didn't smell at all after I cleaned it, and I felt kinda silly worrying about whether I should buy a new one out of fear for blowing myself up. He does it this way all the time... but I'm still not sure I could make the first arc myself!

i cant imagine trying to wash a tank in the car wash in todays world. our local car washes have big signs "forbidding" washing out truck beds. they would flip their lid seeing a gas tank getting washed out....

Hank
 

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
I mean, they literally have a feature and setting to degrease your engine, so they are equipped to handle the runoff at these stations. It’s not like I dumped gasoline down the sewer, the tank had been drained beforehand.
 

jamesroney

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Messages
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Loc.
Fremont, CA
James, excellent suggestion! Way more reasonable than buying/shipping a new tank, then buying a pump, etc for it. Did you use the PA-2 setup (up to 430HP)? This is a definite consideration!

Jeff

So it turns out that I eventually did buy a PA-2, which has the Walbro 155LPH pump. I actually got the tray and hanger from a Mopar guy for free, and bought the Walbro pump from Summit, and then bought the pump replacement "kit" from Tanks Inc directly...to get the special tubing to get from the pump to the flange. But you can just get the whole kit and save some headache.

The Walbro 190 LPH pump is more than enough for a Bronco. The PA-4 puts out 255LPH. The factory 5.0 pump only puts out about 90 LPH, and that's plenty to feed a 230HP 302. I chose the PA-2 so that I could get the special connector to the Mustang OEM pump...so when my Walbro dies, I will replace it with a cheapo 90LPH factory mustang pump.
 
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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
630
I had my tank modified by fabtech in the valley. He had me take the tank to the local self-wash, rinse it really good with soapy water and a high pressure hose, and 3 hours later he was done with the welding modifications. It didn't smell at all after I cleaned it, and I felt kinda silly worrying about whether I should buy a new one out of fear for blowing myself up. He does it this way all the time... but I'm still not sure I could make the first arc myself!

Thankfully my NWMP tank has been drying out for the last 1-2yrs. I bought it from a member here and he cleaned it pretty well to ship. I think i'm (fairly) comfortable cutting into it like James did for the Tanks Inc setup.

I really like how this thread morphed today and answered many more questions than I think I had. thanks all!

For now, I think I'm going with:

1.) my original NWMP 23gal tank
2.) Tanks Inc PA-2 in-tank setup
3.) hard lines, either make myself or buy the BC kit
4.) A/N lines from the pump to filter in the rear and A/N from the steel lines to the fuel rail
5.) a Carter pump and check valve from the Aux tank into the return rail and then back into the return of the PA-2?
 
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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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Messages
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So it turns out that I eventually did buy a PA-2, which has the Walbro 155LPH pump. I actually got the tray and hanger from a Mopar guy for free, and bought the Walbro pump from Summit, and then bought the pump replacement "kit" from Tanks Inc directly...to get the special tubing to get from the pump to the flange. But you can just get the whole kit and save some headache.

The Walbro 190 LPH pump is more than enough for a Bronco. The PA-4 puts out 255LPH. The factory 5.0 pump only puts out about 90 LPH, and that's plenty to feed a 230HP 302. I chose the PA-2 so that I could get the special connector to the Mustang OEM pump...so when my Walbro dies, I will replace it with a cheapo 90LPH factory mustang pump.

I really appreciate you offering up your experience. the PA-2 gave me an option I didn't know I had w/out buying a new tank. One final question.. how is the fuel pressure regulated for the pressure the explorer needs? is this simply matched to the walbro pump, or is there another regulator needed somewhere?

I think i misquoted earlier.. I think you had the Fram filter setup. what does it offer over the other frame-mounted inline filters that most of the vendors sell?
 
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garberz

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Jun 24, 2007
Messages
6,859
Loc.
Conejo Valley, Ca.
I really appreciate you offering up your experience. the PA-2 gave me an option I didn't know I had w/out buying a new tank. One final question.. how is the fuel pressure regulated for the pressure the explorer needs? is this simply matched to the walbro pump, or is there another regulator needed somewhere?

I think i misquoted earlier.. I think you had the Fram filter setup. what does it offer over the other frame-mounted inline filters that most of the vendors sell?

You’ll need a bypass style fuel pressure regulator like this.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13129

Mounts on the frame, near the tank. This is the model EFI Guy recommended when I was dealing with a 99’ EFI system.

Mark
 

jamesroney

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Sep 11, 2007
Messages
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Loc.
Fremont, CA
I really appreciate you offering up your experience. the PA-2 gave me an option I didn't know I had w/out buying a new tank. One final question.. how is the fuel pressure regulated for the pressure the explorer needs? is this simply matched to the walbro pump, or is there another regulator needed somewhere?

I think i misquoted earlier.. I think you had the Fram filter setup. what does it offer over the other frame-mounted inline filters that most of the vendors sell?

I am running 1996 Explorer rails, and the stock Fuel Pressure Regulator sits after the injectors and returns to the tank. I don't know how the return-less Explorer pump is controlled...and hopefully I never find out.

I do run the Fram filter, but mostly because I want a convenient location to mount the fuel lines, and I wanted a fuel filter that anyone can service. Plus, I wanted standard fittings. I can handle NPT, and I can handle JIC37 degree Inverted Flare Female. (also known as -AN) The duck-bill canister from the 89 Volvo with the custom push lock fitting is not something I want to try to find 10 years from now...and can't remember where it came from. Every shop, and every technician knows Fram. Anyone can look at the housing, and get a filter. (HPG1 ACDelco GF775 Or WIX 33900R) It's $8.50 on Amazon. Plus, it will filter to 5 micron, and is big. Big is important, because your 190LPH pump will completely empty your 23 gallon tank in about a half hour. So the filter needs to be big enough to "clean" your tank twice an hour.

If you decide to put a pump in your Northwest tank, be careful not to do what I did in my pic. I wanted the pump to be located in the center of the tank. It always bothered me that Northwest put their EFI sump in the Driver's front corner. So I centered mine. The baffle inside the tank makes that location a problem. Not for the pump, but for the fuel sender! So if you don't move the sender, it will hit the pump stand. I could have either moved the pump, or moved the sender, or bought one of those super cool new senders...but instead, I shortened the arm, and twisted the float and made it work. In hindsight, I'm glad that I did.

My whole impetus for doing this project was because I happened to have a leftover skid plate for a Northwest Fab tank. I refuse to buy another gas tank mounted on unistrut, and I like how the Northwest tank gives good ground clearance by using the body lift space. So in order to take advantage of a free $70.00 skid plate, I bought a used non-EFI tank, and put a pump in it. I also installed the threaded backing ring from Tanks Inc, and ended up welding it in place, because I got tired of dropping it in the tank. I figured that the next idiot that has to change the pump will probably be me...

I had never welded a used tank before, and I was scared to make sparks...so I drilled a 1 inch hole with a uni-bit, and used a nibbler to make the big round hole. I've been picking up nibbler bits for a month. They are just the right shape to get stuck in your socks...and of course into your bare feet. They hurt like crazy...but they are easy to find. It took me an hour to clean all of the little bits out from behind the baffle in the tank, but with a magnet, and some brake-cleaner...the tank eventually came clean. By then it didn't smell anymore, so I went ahead and welded the reinforcing ring.

I am super happy with how it came out, and the price was right.



I
 
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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
630
You’ll need a bypass style fuel pressure regulator like this.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13129

Mounts on the frame, near the tank. This is the model EFI Guy recommended when I was dealing with a 99’ EFI system.

Mark

Thanks Mark (and James). Speaking of EFIGuy (and a past suggestion i found in one of his threads).. could I use his suggestion of poaching the on-pump regulator from my Explorer pump and adapting it to the Pumps Inc PA-2? I already have this.. and would be one less thing to attach to my rail and configure, etc? Or better yet, could i simply go with the PA-A (pump less) and use the pump and regulator from the Explorer assembly I have?

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3038379

For the 99-01 systems, I recommend either adapting the entire fuel pump/regulator assembly to your tank. Or, adding just the regulator to one of the aftermarket EFI tank offerings. In tank pumps suck to replace, but they have a much higher life expectancy IMHO.

0r08w3M.jpg

Jeff
 

garberz

Bronco Influencer
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
6,859
Loc.
Conejo Valley, Ca.
Thanks Mark (and James). Speaking of EFIGuy (and a past suggestion i found in one of his threads).. could I use his suggestion of poaching the on-pump regulator from my Explorer pump and adapting it to the Pumps Inc PA-2? I already have this.. and would be one less thing to attach to my rail and configure, etc? Or better yet, could i simply go with the PA-A (pump less) and use the pump and regulator from the Explorer assembly I have?

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3038379



Jeff

You could certainly go that route. But if your pump ever failed, you’d be forced to drop the tank to replace it. I like the external bypass regulator. You can run both in tank and frame mounted pumps through them. No need to ever drop the tank for a fuel pump, when you’re away from home.

Mark
 
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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
630
If you decide to put a pump in your Northwest tank, be careful not to do what I did in my pic. I wanted the pump to be located in the center of the tank. It always bothered me that Northwest put their EFI sump in the Driver's front corner. So I centered mine. The baffle inside the tank makes that location a problem. Not for the pump, but for the fuel sender! So if you don't move the sender, it will hit the pump stand. I could have either moved the pump, or moved the sender, or bought one of those super cool new senders...but instead, I shortened the arm, and twisted the float and made it work. In hindsight, I'm glad that I did.

My whole impetus for doing this project was because I happened to have a leftover skid plate for a Northwest Fab tank. I refuse to buy another gas tank mounted on unistrut, and I like how the Northwest tank gives good ground clearance by using the body lift space. So in order to take advantage of a free $70.00 skid plate, I bought a used non-EFI tank, and put a pump in it. I also installed the threaded backing ring from Tanks Inc, and ended up welding it in place, because I got tired of dropping it in the tank. I figured that the next idiot that has to change the pump will probably be me...

I had never welded a used tank before, and I was scared to make sparks...so I drilled a 1 inch hole with a uni-bit, and used a nibbler to make the big round hole. I've been picking up nibbler bits for a month. They are just the right shape to get stuck in your socks...and of course into your bare feet. They hurt like crazy...but they are easy to find. It took me an hour to clean all of the little bits out from behind the baffle in the tank, but with a magnet, and some brake-cleaner...the tank eventually came clean. By then it didn't smell anymore, so I went ahead and welded the reinforcing ring.

I am super happy with how it came out, and the price was right.

Thanks again for sharing the experience. Where exactly is the baffle in the NWMP tank? I've searched back through previous threads and couldn't find any definite pics/descriptions. Fortunately, I did purchase one of the fancy/new sending units here:

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303479&highlight=sending

But if you were to do it over (in my shoes), would you place it to the front, centered left/right? I also found my original, new in plastic bag NWMP sending unit last night.. so i'd like to leave it as an option if the 'new' style sending unit doesn't read or work out quite right.

Also, does the depth of the PA-2 match the NWMP tank pretty well? Looks like it's setup out of the box for 10.5".. and knowing that the sending unit is 11", it seems like it's pretty close. But if I need to find a way to extend the PA-2, I might keep looking at pump options. But it looks like I'm going to be buying a PA-2, cutting a hole, determining if I want in/external regulator and plumbing in my lines.

Finally, James/Mark (and others that chimed in)..thanks for all of your advice. I found threads from the last 5-10yrs with you guys helping out others with their fuel tank, fuel pump, etc.. your patience to answer questions and willingness to spend the time to post is what makes this such a great community!
 

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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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You could certainly go that route. But if your pump ever failed, you’d be forced to drop the tank to replace it. I like the external bypass regulator. You can run both in tank and frame mounted pumps through them. No need to ever drop the tank for a fuel pump, when you’re away from home.

Mark

Thats a good, thought-out counterpoint..just what I need to help me make my next step. I think I found a post from 2013 with you recommending the same :) thanks for your contributions!
 
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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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Quick update: Just got the fuel lines installed... I ended up chatting with Jason and used a BC hard + flex line set that he made up for me. In hindsight, I probably could have at least made the hard lines.. as I ended up bending them to fit over my 4r70w crossmember anyhow, but I like how it turned out.

The BC aluminum clamps seem pretty nice & tight. I ended up drilling out the top hole on the one in front of the crossmember to give it an extra 1/2" over the crossmember bracket.. I didn't want the brake line tight/pinched in there.

I also have the rear return line.. in case I ever want to run a transfer pump between an aux tank and the rear tank. I'm still debating this, and have a hole in my body right now for the aux tank. I don't see myself needing over 23gals in a trip and it seems to overcomplicate the system a bit at this point, so i'm leaning away from it for now.
 

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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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If you decide to put a pump in your Northwest tank, be careful not to do what I did in my pic. I wanted the pump to be located in the center of the tank. It always bothered me that Northwest put their EFI sump in the Driver's front corner. So I centered mine. The baffle inside the tank makes that location a problem. Not for the pump, but for the fuel sender! So if you don't move the sender, it will hit the pump stand. I could have either moved the pump, or moved the sender, or bought one of those super cool new senders...but instead, I shortened the arm, and twisted the float and made it work. In hindsight, I'm glad that I did.

So I'm finally at the stage of cutting into my old tank. I had the primer/paint gun out last month for my axles and went ahead and painted it before it decided to flash rust on me.

What is the consensus on where to place an in-tank fuel pump on a NWMP tank? Looks like some (TBP) place it where the fuel sending unit hole is now.. which is a definite option..and I can simply shift the fuel sending unit over to the middle. IMO, it doesn't matter much, since I already purchased the 'new' style straight sending unit (james, thanks for the heads up btw!)

Or I could simply leave the sending unit where it is and place it at the front center like WH, Protofab, Kincer, etc put theirs? Since I already have the inline sending unit and my flex line snakes over there nicely, I'm leaning that direction.. unless someone else w/ more experience has any advice?

Also, what's the best option to plug the 3/8" original fuel pickup? I was just planning to find a fuel-friendly 3/8" cap and clamp. Any 'best practice' ideas?

I'm also dropping in the Tanks-inc PA-2 pump. After reading the other thread about leaks w/ the cork seal and using the Viton seal instead, i'm tempted to drop the $35 and simply start out w/ the Viton Seal instead? I'm also using Gasoila on the NPT threads. Quick question.. would a simple 1/4" NPT plug suffice on the return plug since i'm going 2001 (returnless)?

btw.. i'm leaving these comments in this thread to hopefully serve as a guide for others. I'll eventually add to the build thread instead, but coming back down a path that others have blazed is much easier than trying to find a specific build thread you might have seen an idea in.
 

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toddz69

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Also, what's the best option to plug the 3/8" original fuel pickup? I was just planning to find a fuel-friendly 3/8" cap and clamp. Any 'best practice' ideas?

I'm also dropping in the Tanks-inc PA-2 pump. After reading the other thread about leaks w/ the cork seal and using the Viton seal instead, i'm tempted to drop the $35 and simply start out w/ the Viton Seal instead? I'm also using Gasoila on the NPT threads. Quick question.. would a simple 1/4" NPT plug suffice on the return plug since i'm going 2001 (returnless)?

On the pickup capping, I don't know if it's 'best practice' or not but what has worked great for me on various tanks in the past 25 years is to put a piece of fuel line on the fitting, cut it short and stick a short, properly sized bolt in the other end with some silicone on it and hose clamp each end. Never leaked or caused any problems (this was on unused vent lines on my tanks but the concept is the same on larger diameter fittings.

I only have a month or so on my new gasket now but I'd recommend going for the Viton seal myself. So far it's holding up well. If you're describing what I think you're describing on the return fitting (90 deg. NPT fitting), then yes, a 1/4" NPT plug with Gasoila on it will do just fine. I did the same thing on the vent fitting on my tank.

Todd Z.
 

EricLar80

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Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
If you are serious about plugging it up for good, I would weld or braze it up. You could also plug it with tank repair putty, which could be popped out later with a pun h or drill. If just temporary, I do what Todd does, except use a solid rod and not a bolt.
 

450rbronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
389
So I’m getting ready to adapt the explorer pump into my factory tank. Planning on cutting the hole and using nutserts to fasten it tight. I’m using a 99 motor with returnless setup. Does anything need to be connected to the part on the fuel rail that looks like a regulator?


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1buckeyefan1

1buckeyefan1

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So I’m getting ready to adapt the explorer pump into my factory tank. Planning on cutting the hole and using nutserts to fasten it tight. I’m using a 99 motor with returnless setup. Does anything need to be connected to the part on the fuel rail that looks like a regulator?


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The little schrader-type valve at the front right (that has a little black nub from the factory)? I believe most guys attach a pressure gauge there to monitor their pressure (at least based on the pictures i've seen). WH and others sell a gauge that I plan to mount on mine.
 
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