Floor channel support rust options.

[Airmapper]

Well it's always worse than it looks. I've kinda hit a wall here.

I started a 1" body lift. I started on the passenger side, and while it's slow going I've been having good luck removing them.

But on the front the PO so generously patched the floor pans by putting plates on top. (actually I found 2 layers of patching.) That means I had to get under there to find the body mount bolts. So it started as a body lift and before I knew it, I had most of the seats out, pulled my roll bar that was sitting on imagination, and had the patch panels off on the passenger side. (The drivers side are chicken shit welded in...)

I am a little overwhelmed with what I found. The floor pans themselves aren't such a horrible problem, still more than I can tackle right now, but at least I understand what to do. My worry is the under floor supports are about gone as well. Especially the ones under the front floor pans. The others aren't great, but are better.

I'm trying to build a trail rig. I'm not worried about factory restoration, if I'm able to fix this (emphasis on the IF) I'm just looking for functional and secure.

My questions:

Can this be fixed without removing the tub?

What are the minimum requirements for equipment? (Welder, sheet metal tools, etc....)

I plan on having non stock seats and possibly other mods. My NP435 hacks the tunnel cover as well. Is it worthwhile to use OEM style replacements, or fab stuff? Maybe buy a few of the replacement channel supports and use sheet metal for floors?

Any advice on what options I have, what route I can take, and how much work this is to fix would be appreciated. I was really wanting to get a cage in soon but this kinda has me worried that will be pointless if there is nothing under it of any substance.

 

[rjrobin2002]

All you really need is a cheap 110 volt wire welder like sold at lowes or tractor supply and a angle grinder with some thin cut off wheels. Get a pair of floor pans and the channel that goes under the floor for each side and start welding. Then start patching everything else. I found that lowes and tractor suply have a good selection of plate, channel, and angle for patch jobs.

Here is a bunch of patching i did on a trail bronco with just a small welder, angle grinder, and some lowes sheet metal.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193571

 

[broncojo]

Anything can be patched with some ingenuity, one thing you may want to consider while your doing metal work is are going to run that roll cage when you are finished. If so then you may want to consider tying it to the frame, I would imagine with the issues that you have going that the whole tub is pretty weak. Also by tying to the frame the supports would help with making the tub more secure and solid, just a thought that could work in your favor.

 

[chandaman_05]

Those are pretty rough! Mine had a few spots that were rough that I had to make patch panels for. Like any other bronco water gets into a place like that and the rust begins from the inside when it looks pretty good from the outside!

After I patched the chanels and got them where I wanted I went further to put some thick supports across the body below where the roll cage mounts to make a sort of "subframe" that will help to support the body and roll cage a little bit more!

Like any other body panel fix on a bronco you'll need lots of welding wire, a spot weld driller, and some cutoff wheels!

 

[Airmapper]

Thanks everyone for the input.

I've actually been trying to get a welder, but it's a long story. My Dad works in the welding industry, thinks he might be able to get me a good one, scratch and dent or some such, plus he doesn't want his son to just get any old welder, it has to have this and that, and well he keeps talking me out of getting a cheap one, telling me to hold on he will find a nice one, but for the time being, I still have no welder....

If so then you may want to consider tying it to the frame, I would imagine with the issues that you have going that the whole tub is pretty weak. Also by tying to the frame the supports would help with making the tub more secure and solid, just a thought that could work in your favor.

I'm having a hard time with this. Everyone tells me something different, and everyone makes a good point, but I've still not come to understand who is right. I guess I'll just have to make up my own mind. It's like asking what carb is best. I've been told both to tie it in, and not tie it in, by intelligent people with sound reasoning for both methods. I don't know what to do there. I have had plans for what I'll do, but it gets shot to hell every time I find something else rusted off.

I'm just not sure what to do. Part of me wants to just redneck hack it together and hit the trail. The perfectionist, engineering minded part won't let me. I need to find a solution somewhere between a hack job unsafe fix, and wasting money on a rust bucket I just want to be safe to drive but not so much money invested in it I won't cringe and cry if I scrape a fender.

 

[bmc69]

I'm having a hard time with this. Everyone tells me something different, and everyone makes a good point, but I've still not come to understand who is right. I guess I'll just have to make up my own mind.

I find that odd...who are these people you speak of? I can think of no reason NOT to tie a roll cage in to the frame and lots of good reasons to do so...ESPECIALLY when dealing with a weak/questionable body. Having driven trucks on trails for a good 35 or 40 years, I've seen some ugly things happen with poorly designed and poorly attached roll bars and cages, and even really nice cages attached to only the body metal.. They rip out or punch through even healthy body metal surprisingly easy in the event of a roll-over or crash.

Have I tied every one I've ever built in to the frames? No, I have not. But that is simply a conscious decision to do less work on my part and accept the inferiority of the setup.

 

[Rustytruck]

If this was my truck I would buy the front floor patch pannels just because it is easier and a big time saver. You have enough to do on this truck without having to make more work for yourself that you dont have the tools and skills for. Doesn't mean you can't learn but I believe in picking your battles. For the rear hole your stuck making a patch pannel yourself as the hole is bigger than the normal patch pannel for that location. But that is a simple one to make requiring no extra tooling that you dont have.
As for the body and roll bar structure a friend of mine ended up welding out riggers on the frame and welded the roll cage right to the structure. Then patched the floor around it. It means he can't remove the cage without cutting it out but it hasn't needed removal in 30 years.

 

[AndyT]

I bought a 4x8 sheet of 14 gauge sheet metal and fabed my floor pans and still had some left over to do the entire bed. Cost $55. Some measurements, welds, and some air shears and you are in business!! POR 15ed those suckers too so it's bye bye rusty floors!!! Beats the hell out of a new set of pans that u have to weld up anyway for triple the cost!!

 

[AndyT]

Check mine out. You think your rust issues are bad... This should make you feel better. I'll post up the new pics of pans PORed and how she sits now, later. I ain't got the pics yet.

http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/rotag31/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsf1a2583d.jpg.html

 

[Airmapper]

Good ideas here. It looks like a huge task, but I'm sure I'm making it more difficult than it should be. All I wanted was to finish my body lift and get a pre-fabed cage and hit the road.

Now I'm afraid my body mount perches are in pretty bad shape as well. I may need to weld in a washer like patch to those so the mount is secure.

I guess a welder is about the only way I can go. Fix it once, fix it right...I don't like that, but it's the right thing to do.

I find that odd...who are these people you speak of? I can think of no reason NOT to tie a roll cage in to the frame and lots of good reasons to do so...ESPECIALLY when dealing with a weak/questionable body.

Well, I won't say who. I do believe they know what they are talking about, and it's entirely possible I misunderstood them.

The idea is that the channel supports are quite strong and capable of being part of the cage. Basically your cage ties into the floor supports, seats are also tied into that, making it all "together" as a system. I see the logic in it, given a Bronco with all new metal that is built well, good welds all around, and all the supports intact. Mine doesn't fit that bill right now, so that kinda puts me in a bad position. I have to fix my floors before I can get a cage if I'm depending on the floors as part of the structure. At least until I can tie it in if I can.

 

[broncojo]

Well, I won't say who. I do believe they know what they are talking about, and it's entirely possible I misunderstood them.

I would assume me, no problem here I was just pointing out a possible way that you could add some support to the floor and body using the existing roll cage you have. If your building a trail rig then there would be a good chance that you may need that additional protection, plus by tying the body in with it you could eliminate some of the floor channel repairs.

I know where you coming from when you get overwhelmed with suggestions, you just have to weed through them and pick the best route for you. I completely redid my floors and floor supports, and will more than likely still tie in my cage. But as stated above it's not a necessity, it's more of a what do you want to do to your rig. Good luck with the repairs.

 

[Airmapper]

Do I have to take out the dash for floor pans? The front of the floor well looks a bit tight to access.

I pulled off more floor pans today. I think at bare minimum the 3 support channels in the front have to be replaced. I may do that and worry about the bed later, it's more solid, not great but I think it will hold unlike the front.

The body mount horns in the foot well have to be welded on a bit as well to clean up where the mounts sit.

I'm working on getting a welder. I actually got one to try out this week, but it was a dud unit so I'll have to do something else. Thankfully I'm not out anything having tried it, just bummed it didn't work, I probably would have gotten a really good deal on it.

 

[Nelson]

Just a note check the top of the frame rails just below the front seat area. I there is a dent on one or both frame rails be aware that one of them is probably lower than the other. So you will need to make sure you put the floor supports in at the proper height to get everything back square. Set the frame level on a level surface and measure, measure, measure. Only do one floor pan at a time if possible after supporting the body on new body mounts. Have fun on you endeavor and keep us posted.

 

[Airmapper]

Well it took a while but I'm back to working on this. The time away from the Bronco was used getting used to my new welder, so I'm cooking with gas (75/25) so to speak.

I'm thinking about going this route:
http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/frontfloorpan_platformset68-77

My only concerns are my NP435 and twin sticks mean I'll probably have to hack on a nice new tunnel cover, and I won't have stock seats so no telling what I'll need there. I'm considering new seats, but that will cut into my budget for the cage and that means additional time to build my funds for the Bronco back up.

Not as cheap as patching in plates, but it should get me going quicker. The bed area needs some work as well, but on it I had in mind trying to do some patching, it's not as critical and it gives me a better area to practice in. I'm guessing if later on I want to repair it more I can. I have to try and not get carried into a body off resto, this is supposed to stay a rig I won't feel bad about taking on the trails.

I need inner rockers as well. The outer rockers were replaced by a PO, I think I can use them.

Any thoughts on my new plan? Oh, a 1" BL is in progress at the same time and I'll be repairing the body mount perches.

 

[PaveBronco]

On the welder note, I've had a cheap one from Harbor Freight for about 10 years an works fine, but what I think you need is some CB members near you to come out and take a look. Got to be some folks near you, and I'm sure they can do this stuff in their sleep...

Anyone?

 

[Airmapper]

On the welder note, I've had a cheap one from Harbor Freight for about 10 years an works fine, but what I think you need is some CB members near you to come out and take a look. Got to be some folks near you, and I'm sure they can do this stuff in their sleep...

Anyone?

As nice as that would be I'm not too keen on letting some stranger, Bronco brother or not come on my property. I'd love to but with all the crazies out there I'm not as hospitable as I wish I could be. Besides there aren't many members out here at all, well that are really active here anyway.

With my inexperience, I'm thinking the pre-built kit will get me past the hard part, but give me enough of a taste of it I'll be better prepared for the next time I have to deal with it.

 

[Airmapper]

Here are some photos of what I'm working with:

 

[Golfball]

With that much rust in the rockers, make sure you support underneath before you cut anything else out. Otherwise you will have some buckling happening.

 

[Nelson]

You are probably on the right path in buying the pre assembled floor section with that much rust. However it may prove to be quit a job to section the whole assembly in and line up every thing. Just measure and brace, brace, and measure. Then measure some more. Good Luck and remember eat that elephant one bite at a time. Have fun with it.