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Hydroboost vs Power Brakes

jperry1290

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
920
So I have heard that hydroboost is the better of the 2, but I dont have power steering. Can I still use hydroboost? I have seen several hydro boost setups in online parts catalogs that are $100 for the m/c and booster. Can I use any old set up or is there specific ones?

Also regarding the power setup I found a power booster on broncograveyard for $99. They say the stock m/c will bolt up directly, but I need the mounting bracket. I found an bracket, booster, and m/c for $200 used online, is that a good price?

And yes disc's are on my list.
 

Ranchtruck

Full Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
767
If you plan on swapping power steering in later, go with they hydroboost. You can run it alone, but you need the pump, brackets and belt to run it. So if you want to do that as an interem until you swap power steering in, then that works out well.

But, if you don't plan on power steering, then it's a whole lot more effort and expense to plumb up a hydroboost than it is to bolt up a vacuum booster and run 1 hose to the intake.
 

shamu

Lucky as the day is long.
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
5,290
Loc.
Sachse,Tx
I am with out words, can somebody else please help. I was lost I mean blown away at the first question. Be nice!!!!!!!
 

fablife

Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Messages
289
the hydroboost definitley has superior stopping power, (it's what I have on mine) but, I like to keep my rig simple, so I am going to convert back to vac (power) brakes. To me, it just adds unecessary heat and more things that can go bad.
The hydroboost has always gave me GREAT braking no matter what incline. I have had some steering issues when doing a lot of braking and steering on the "tech" trails tho.
I guess this will open a can of worms..... JD
 

Lebe

Jr. Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
235
Loc.
Phx
Of course hydroboost is a power brake system, just uses PS pump pressure for the 'power'.

The hydroboost units are plentiful out of old Astro vans for $40-50. I think you could make it work without PS but it would make better sense to upgrade to that too. Check the Tech section here to see a diagram

The harder thing to find is the PS pump reservoir with dual returns that fits. Would only need one return if you didn't do the PS.

And I'd never buy a used master cylinder. It's your brakes, man. I used the Astroboost and bought a new Astro MC. I like it cause its alloy and won't rust and its matched to the HB and the ports are on the drivers side (nice for tight Bronco under hood). Stops my '68 on a dime with 37" tires and one ton axles.
 

NY-Bronco

Resident Dipstick
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
2,336
Loc.
Weehawken, NJ
One of my biggest complaints on the bronco in the past was the stopping power. I run 35" tires with a lift. I had the power booster on it from BC Broncos. While stopping was never a problem I always had to keep my distance from the next car because of the stopping distance itself. I really had to step on it hard. Needless to say I wasn't to happy about that.

I just hooked up the hydroboost two days ago and finally got to drive it. Someone told me I need to practice braking all over again. The Bronco now stops on a dime. To say that the hydro is twice as good would be a lie. Its at least 5 times better if not more. I definitely feel much safer with it in there.

You do however need power steering pump to run the hydro. I got my 94 hydroboost from a user on here named Rustyshackelfor. PM him. He has them in stock right now. I bought a NEW master cylinder for a 79 camaro. All in all it came out to be a lot cheaper than I thought. Don't waste your cash if you think you will be upgrading in the future. Besides, power steering aint such a bad thing. If you can stop your EB then start with the power steering. When you do get the power steering pump, get one with dual return. Talk to Rusty. I believe he has everything you need to make it all happen.

I am extremely pleased with my choice!!
 

RustyShackelfor

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
1,593
Loc.
Centerville, TN
i would vote for HB, as it stops better and if there is a problem you just get your regular old unassisted brakes back, not that hard to stop feeling from when your vac booster goes out.

I appreciate the kind words NY-Bronco, I strive to please.

I have everything you could need if you want to go HB, probably everything you need to go disc brakes too. You can PM me on here.

Thanks
 

dbevans2249

Full Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
610
Loc.
Buena Park, Ca.
I have been told that Hydroboost can be run with out power steering. But I have never tried it and those that said it could be done have not either. They said that the high pressure line out of the hydroboost that goes to the steering gear box could be routed back to the pump. The idea was that there is no pressure with out resistance. If I was going to give it a try I would definately use a saginaw pump with two returns. JMO after thinking about it for a while I think it will work.
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,917
I have been told that Hydroboost can be run with out power steering. .

You misunderstood. A hydroboost bake system still functions without hydraulic pressure should you lose a hose or a belt..but you would never install one on purpose without the hydraulic pump. ;)
 

Apogee

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,220
ABS Brake Systems makes a unit that uses an electric pump (similar to the 1987 Buick turbocharged GN in fact). It isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't require a power steering pump.

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/ehpm.html
 

garberz

Bronco Influencer
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
6,861
Loc.
Conejo Valley, Ca.
You can't run hydroboost with just a PS pump, you have to have a PS box as well. The hydraulic assist has a hi pressure inlet and hi pressure outlet. The hi pressure outlet needs to go to the steering box. You can't just run it as a return. This is a good time to upgrade to both PS and hydroboost braking.
 

fungus

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,548
Loc.
Kaneohe Bay, Oahu
Here's my $.02:

If you have the money in the budget to upgrade to power steering while doing your brakes at the same time go with a hydroboost setup. I run one and plan on running another on the '68 project. If you can't swing BOTH upgrades at the same time go with a vacuum booster setup. This setup will bolt right on and can remain unchanged if and when you upgrade to power steering as the two systems are totally independent. More guys run vacuum boosters than hydroboosters so they can't be that bad and better than manual brakes by a looooooong shot. If after you get power steering on the rig and decide you want HB brakes you can always sell the vacuum unit on here for a reasonable amount to recoupe some costs on the HB system.
 

Ranchtruck

Full Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
767
You can't run hydroboost with just a PS pump, you have to have a PS box as well. The hydraulic assist has a hi pressure inlet and hi pressure outlet. The hi pressure outlet needs to go to the steering box. You can't just run it as a return. This is a good time to upgrade to both PS and hydroboost braking.

This just isn't true. Basic hydraulics, the hydroboost and the power steering box are both open center systems, which means when you're not cranking on the steering wheel or stepping on the brake the fluid circulates from the pump, through the hydroboost, through the steering box, through the cooler, and back to the reservoir, all under no/minimal pressure.

When you crank the steering wheel, the valve redirects the feed to one side of the assist piston in the box, and the other side to the return. Now the line from the pump, through the hydroboost, and up to the steering box is at whatever pressure is needed to displace the volume in the assist cylinder against the resistance of the steering system. When you hit full lock and the piston bottoms, then the pressure in the system hits whatever maximum set by the bypass regulator in the pump. As soon as you release the steering wheel, the spool valve goes back to open center and fluid resumes circulating at minimum pressure.

Now the reason the hydroboost needs it's own separate return is because it needs a hydraulic pressure differential across it even if the steering is being held a full lock (no fluid circulating through the output line to the steering box, but running at max pressure). So it has it's independent return to ensure it can let fluid leave it's system and return to the reservoir as it actuates. Now when you use the hydroboost, it acts as a diversion in the hydraulic system to the input on the power steering box, so steering assist will be affected by the use of the hydroboost.

The steering box and the hydroboost both use open center valving because the pump is a positive displacement vane pump. It has to move fluid, at whatever pressure necessary up to the relief valve pressure. If the lines were under full pressure all the time, the amount of heat built up in the fluid, wear on the pump, and power consumed from the engine would be huge. That's what happens when you hold the steering at full lock, the relive valve is letting the full fluid volume of the pump bypass at maximum pressure straight from the output of the pump back to the reservoir. That's why the pump whines and the engine loads down. The heat problem is compounded because the pressurized fluid is being dumped straight back into the reservoir, not circulating through the steering box, out the return, through the cooler, and then back to the reservoir like it normally does. That's why pumps get cooked by people holding the steering at full lock for extended periods (like doing donuts in the snow).

Consider the output line on the hydroboost to be the same as the power beyond tap on a loader going to a backhoe. If you remove the backhoe, you just hook the input line to the return line to the reservoir, and the loader will still function normally. If you run hydroboost without a steering box, you hook the output to the return and it will still function normally, because it's just the same as using it for stopping in a straight line without touching the steering wheel if it was equipped with a power steering box.
 

dbevans2249

Full Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
610
Loc.
Buena Park, Ca.
Running a Hydroboost with out Power steering would save some money especally if it comes from the U Jerk Yard. JMO grab the Saginaw Pump from a Diesel so it has two return line barbs. Then get both pressure hoses and the booster from an Astro Van. Pretty easy upgrade I think.
 

fstik

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Messages
311
RE: Power Brakes

Hold off on the power brakes (vacuum or hydro) and do your disc brake upgrade first. Power brakes setups on the old drum brakes are fine, but you will still have the stopping issues (which side will it pull on this time???). The discs will really help your stopping power and will be much more predictable and safer.

I did the vacuum assist first, then the disc conversion, then changed to hydroboost. Wish I would have just done the disc conversion then hydro.

fstik
 
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