Imron Compatibility

[u10072]

Hello All,
Ok I am painting my latest project with Imron in the satin sheen. Hey I wanted to try to see if the "new" fade in auto painting would be cool and paint this 77 "flat"

So here is the questions-- Imon is a polyurethane industrial product that they have had for forever. My question concerning the primers and sealer. I got the data sheet and still don't fully know- and neither does the paint store. I am using just a basic good all around 2k hi-build primer. So I hope that will work and not have some lifting problem. Next is a sealer question- ok on some edges here and there I have sanded through to the metal and those need to be touched up. As I understand it sealer will work fine to cover the panel and the bare spots here and there. The sealer is a Nason 2k urethane sealer. Is it going to be ok to the Nason 2k urethane sealer then shoot the Imron over the top? I am planning on starting the paiting at about 7 am here in Phoenix which should be about 70* -- typically you shoot the sealer and then right after shoot the topcoat. Could I just wait a little longer to make ?more certain the sealer has flashed off?

Any experience with this stuff would be great!

Thanks,
Matt

 

[allenfahey]

Hello All,
Ok I am painting my latest project with Imron in the satin sheen. Hey I wanted to try to see if the "new" fade in auto painting would be cool and paint this 77 "flat"

So here is the questions-- Imon is a polyurethane industrial product that they have had for forever. My question concerning the primers and sealer. I got the data sheet and still don't fully know- and neither does the paint store. I am using just a basic good all around 2k hi-build primer. So I hope that will work and not have some lifting problem. Next is a sealer question- ok on some edges here and there I have sanded through to the metal and those need to be touched up. As I understand it sealer will work fine to cover the panel and the bare spots here and there. The sealer is a Nason 2k urethane sealer. Is it going to be ok to the Nason 2k urethane sealer then shoot the Imron over the top? I am planning on starting the paiting at about 7 am here in Phoenix which should be about 70* -- typically you shoot the sealer and then right after shoot the topcoat. Could I just wait a little longer to make ?more certain the sealer has flashed off?

Any experience with this stuff would be great!

Thanks,
Matt

Matt,
I would wait till you can call Dupont (they make the sealer you are using) Monday and make sure the Imron is compatible with the Nason Sealer. It probably is OK but like we discussed if it were me I would make sure. The store will have Duponts tech number. If they won't give it to you I can get it Monday.

You could spray the sealer, let it dry, lightly sand/scuff with a red scuff pad, then paint. That will no longer be a chemical bond but a mechanical bond.

You stated you shoot the sealer then right after the paint. You don't do that, you have to wait for it to flash off. No matter if it's solvent or water base coat, single stage, or clear. If you don't let the sealer flash you will trap solvents. They will come out eventually and that is usually after the job is all done. The little bubbles that you would see is called solvent pop, the solvents pop thru the top coat.

 

[512cadillac]

I would definitly get the correct product that Dupont calls for. A friend and I both tried to save some money when we used Imron and used a different primer then what Dupont said to use. It worked and nothing lifted but it would chip down to bare metal very easily. Imron is great paint, we have locomotives with 15-20 year old paint that still look good considering they are always outside. Do yourself a favor and use all Dupont products, you will be happier in the long run. John

 

[TN1776]

I shot Imron 5000 (the California version from ~5 years ago) over some 2K epoxy primer/sealer and haven't had any problems yet... its tough paint!

I believe the primer/sealer I used was a PPG product but I don't seem to have the can any longer. I don't know if the newer Imron formulas are different but I have been told they changed to an even lower VOC mixture than 5000 was.

Safest bet would be calling Dupont direct even if it delays your project a while.

 

[allenfahey]

I would definitly get the correct product that Dupont calls for. A friend and I both tried to save some money when we used Imron and used a different primer then what Dupont said to use. It worked and nothing lifted but it would chip down to bare metal very easily. Imron is great paint, we have locomotives with 15-20 year old paint that still look good considering they are always outside. Do yourself a favor and use all Dupont products, you will be happier in the long run. John

If it chipped down to bare metal that was a problem with the primer not the compatibility of the Imron to the primer. There is nothing wrong with using a different manufactures primer that the paint. When the primer dries and you sand it it is then a mechanical bond. Nothing different than when you sand an OEM paint job on a newer car and paint or clear overtop that.

 

[73azbronco]

Dude, Imron is great but wear a positive air breather, not just a filter. Your still young.

 

[u10072]

Well I simply don't have one...unless I rented a scuba tank! Who even has one of those positive breathers??

I am calling Monday to find out more about compatibility and if this stuff is gonna kill me Tuesday morning in my garage it not!

 

[allenfahey]

Well I simply don't have one...unless I rented a scuba tank! Who even has one of those positive breathers??

I am calling Monday to find out more about compatibility and if this stuff is gonna kill me Tuesday morning in my garage it not!

I have a SATA one but they are expensive. For someone doing it in their garage a few times and you have plenty of airflow and a respirator used for painting, you should be OK. From what I hear the big hype about Imron being bad for you was because some old timers wouldn't use a respirator. The guy that taught me to paint was one of those old timers and wouldn't wear a respirator. Many old timer painters like him were getting sick. Anything with isocyanates will make you sick or eventually make you sick. Once you are isocynate sensitive it is irreversible.

 

[miikee73]

I have a cousin that sprayed a lot of imron without proper filteration and when I saw him at a reunion he looked grey. He took off work with a flu sympton and the longer he was off the worse he got.They said he was addicted to the imron and spent 3 months in a detox hospital. He had to get away from the autobody trade,or die.
I had a motorhome that was painted with imron,it looked like it was wet ,it shined so much...Be careful....

 

[Broncitis]

When I was in the Navy I was an airframe mechanic and a painter on F/A-18's for part of that time. We used a white polyurethane product similar to Imron for the wheel wells and engine intakes and had to use a forced air respirator when shooting that due to the isocynate (especially when you are doing a belly crawl down into the closed space of an intake). Other than that, all the flat gray we shot was OK with just a standard organic cartridge respirator with pre-filter.

 

[73azbronco]

The guys who shot all the CARC paint for Desert Storm are Dead.

It's basically Imron for Hummers and Tanks.

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/carc-paint/index.asp

 

[allenfahey]

Every paint school or class I have attended they touch on safety for us painters. Anything with a hardener has the same isocynates as CARC, Imron, or any other 2K automotive primer, paint, or clear. None of them are more dangerous for you than another. Isocynates will get into your body thru the skin, eyes, ears, and respiratory system. The more you expose your body to them the more chances you will become isocynate sensitive. That is what happened to miikee73's cousin and why he is no longer in the body shop buisness. He didn't become addicted to it he became sensitive to it. If he would even walk into a body shop his chest would tighten up and have a hard time breathing. All about isocyanates

Waterbourne paint is going to be just as bad for your health. Many think you don't need a respirator for it but it is more dangerous than solvent base coat. Since we are 75% water our body will absorb it quicker than solvent.

At the very least wear a charcoal respirator weather you are spraying primer, base, or clear. The charcoal filters only last 8 hours, so keep that in mind. You should also wear a dust mask when sanding. You can get isocyanate exposure thru the dust too. I have a full face SATA fresh air respirator for painting but I find it hard to see what I'm doing when I paint. I do use it when I'm in a confined area like the inside of a work van.

 

[Pa PITT]

I was in the Auto parts and Paint business When Imron came out. It is great paint but it's been since 1995 since I've sprayed any. I too was going to say spend more on your mask than your paint.. I had a customer who sprayed more of it than any one in our area. He lived about 10 or 12 years after he started spraying Imron. So Be careful.. It was always the easiest paint too spray Solid colors fore sure.
... I can't remember what the no. of the primer was unless it was 2 parts 825s or 826s too 1 part 82___s... I don't remember the additive no.