In Depth Discussion - Selling Title and Glovebox Door with Tag, Title Issues, etc.

[Splash440]

I live in North Carolina and recently bought a 75 with a clear Virginia title. The title, frame and B pillar numbers matched and obviously original. However, the glove box was missing. When I went to register the vehicle in NC it was flagged in the NC database as "Junk". I was told I could not register the vehicle in NC even though I had a clear VA title. No one in the local law enforcement (Highway Patrol) could tell me how this could happen.

I appealed this decision to the state Theft Bureau that mange this type of thing. With a little patience and a really good officer in charge I finally got the whole story. The vehicle was registered new in NC in late 75 and had the "Junk" designation placed on the tile in late 88 by the vehicle owner. Based on NC code this should only be done if the vehicle is unrepairable. We believe at this point moves to VA as a hunt club vehicle where it was abandoned. This is where the guy I purchased it from came in. He got the vehicle from the hunt club a few years ago and was going to restore it. He applied for an Abandoned Vehicle tile in VA.

NC requires the glove compartment tag and the frame to match the title. So after all the reearch confirming the vehicle was legitimate they remove the "Junk" designation. However, due to the fact I did not have the glove compartment tag I will get a NC issued tile number.

I payed very little for the vehicle as it is rusty and has no motor and transmission.

I am pleased with the outcome even though it is a NC number because I have no plans to sell.

David Langston
Dover, NC

 

[Bitch'nBronco]

I ran into that when I registered my Bronco in Sanford, NC. A Sheriff Deputy had to physically see the vin stamped on passenger side frame rail. My bronco is a 67, I accidentally cut thru the insurance tag that was riveted to the drivers kick panel when I was replacing the kick panel steel (rusted out) and had a new replacement Marti tag made. I told the Sheriff the story and he told me the replacement tag from Marti was acceptable since it matched the frame and they issued me a NC title with the correct Bronco vin. This was a good 8 years ago, things may have changed since then.

 

[Slowleak]

However, due to the fact I did not have the glove compartment tag I will get a NC issued tile number.

You can order a replacement warranty tag, along with the rivets, from Marti Auto Works.

 

[Splash440]

Thanks, I already have the Marti report with the glove compartment tag and the B pillar tag.

 

[bulletpruf]

@Splash440 - if you have an aftermarket frame and want to do this legit, I can see two options. 1. Cut out the VIN from existing frame and weld into new frame. 2. Have a new VIN with tag issued by DMV.

Either way, to do it legitimately, you need to figure out the laws in NC and get the appropriate authorities involved. If you don't you're not going to be in compliance with state or federal law, and that could jam you up - https://codes.findlaw.com/nc/chapter-20-motor-vehicles/nc-gen-st-sect-20-109.html

 

[ngsd]

@Splash440 - if you have an aftermarket frame and want to do this legit, I can see two options. 1. Cut out the VIN from existing frame and weld into new frame. 2. Have a new VIN with tag issued by DMV.

Either way, to do it legitimately, you need to figure out the laws in NC and get the appropriate authorities involved. If you don't you're not going to be in compliance with state or federal law, and that could jam you up - https://codes.findlaw.com/nc/chapter-20-motor-vehicles/nc-gen-st-sect-20-109.html

Cutting out the VIN is not allowed in most states so if you did that you would need to lie about it. It could be easily challenged if you used a non factory frame so not advised. states will usually issue a state reassigned VIN if you do it legally. The problem is that. lot of people don't like that because it may devalue the vehicle so they go the other route.

 

[bulletpruf]

Cutting out the VIN is not allowed in most states so if you did that you would need to lie about it. It could be easily challenged if you used a non factory frame so not advised. states will usually issue a state reassigned VIN if you do it legally. The problem is that. lot of people don't like that because it may devalue the vehicle so they go the other route.

I agree that most states will likely not allow it, so a check of state law would be necessary.

I agree that it could be easily challenged if you used an obviously aftermarket frame. However, I understand that at least one company makes a stock replacement type frame. You would need a talented welder to weld in the piece of the frame with the VIN without being easily detected, but I think it's possible.

 

[Splash440]

NC is very picky when it comes to titles. The officer I worked with said without the glove compartment tag I would have to get a NC issued tile number even though the frame and B pillar numbers matched.

I have not gotten the number yet as I need the new glove compartment lid attached to the vehicle before they will issue it.

To be safe I have the case file number and a letter from the Major (head officer) in the Theft Bureau.

David Langston
Dover, NC

 

[bulletpruf]

NC is very picky when it comes to titles. The officer I worked with said without the glove compartment tag I would have to get a NC issued tile number even though the frame and B pillar numbers matched.

I have not gotten the number yet as I need the new glove compartment lid attached to the vehicle before they will issue it.

To be safe I have the case file number and a letter from the Major (head officer) in the Theft Bureau.

David Langston
Dover, NC

Order a new glovebox door tag from Marti and go back. This is not a VIN tag, it's a warranty tag, so no issues whatsoever replacing it. They should have zero issues with issuing a title without the warranty tag, too.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[nvrstuk]

Good thread. I see this on FB all the time.

3c in your original post is HUGE.

There are so many Broncos that have or had frame damage or rot and then a huge group that have a title, glove box & a Bronco and swap pcs of frame or weld in repaired sections.

Maybe this is why Vermont and some other States just license it with the title, bill of sale and registration?

I have purchased a few Broncos and many other older cars & trucks in my time and not one single licensing department employee has ever walked out with a flashlight & mirror and crawled under those Broncos or older vehicles in the snow (or hot pavement) to look for frame numbers and it's never happened as I drive past our courthouse everyday and know their employees personally.

If it was wrecked then it goes thru an inspection with the Wa State Patrol.

Are all you guys saying when you buy any year car or truck that your DMV guys actually go out and look at the frame numbers of any & every car/truck/motorcycle before you get new tabs and transferred into your name?

 

[thegreatjustino]

Are all you guys saying when you buy any year car or truck that your DMV guys actually go out and look at the frame numbers of any & every car/truck/motorcycle before you get new tabs and transferred into your name?

Modern cars for the last 30+ years have had the VIN visible through the windshield for inspection and verification when needed. It's older vehicles that didn't have the universal VIN location that go through a lot of these hoops. Here in CA, any vehicle being registered from out of state needs to have the VIN verified. Either by a law enforcement officer or the DMV. With a modern vehicle, it's a simple matter of looking at the VIN through the windshield. For older vehicles I've purchased out of state, I've had law enforcement officers look all over the car with a flashlight in order to find the VIN stamped in the correct place.

 

[nvrstuk]

Agreed Justino- I purchased another rig last Dec from out of State and no VIN check at all here in WA. Agreed on VIN's visible thru the windshield. I don't even count those in this discussion. lol

Most of our club members that buy cars are dealing with rigs whose engine #'s were used as the ID for the vehicle. Of course those old rigs almost never have the same engine block in them after 75 yrs.

SOOooo many variables, great thread!

 

[bulletpruf]

Maybe this is why Vermont and some other States just license it with the title, bill of sale and registration?

Vermont doesn't need a title or registration; a bill of sale will suffice. You don't need to be a resident, either. You just have to pay the tax on the value (I paid $970 for my '69 a few years ago). They send you a registration, but not a title, since Vermont doesn't issue titles for vehicles more than 15 years old. You can take the Vermont registration to your local DMV to get a local title and registration. That's the so-called "Vermont loophole." See post 16 in this thread for more details.

I have purchased a few Broncos and many other older cars & trucks in my time and not one single licensing department employee has ever walked out with a flashlight & mirror and crawled under those Broncos or older vehicles in the snow (or hot pavement) to look for frame numbers and it's never happened as I drive past our courthouse everyday and know their employees personally.

If it was wrecked then it goes thru an inspection with the Wa State Patrol.

Are all you guys saying when you buy any year car or truck that your DMV guys actually go out and look at the frame numbers of any & every car/truck/motorcycle before you get new tabs and transferred into your name?

In Texas, if you don't have a title, you can apply for a bonded title. If you do, the local police (in San Antonio, it's the vehicle theft unit) will crawl all over your Bronco checking it out. It helps if you clean off the frame VIN with a wire brush and highlight it with white chalk. I don't know if the DMV verifies your VIN if it's just a regular transfer.

 

[nvrstuk]

Here's what I asked earlier, and I need to change it from "all years" to years where VIN's weren't moved under the windshield glass since I asked not just Bronco's but older cars/trucks are the same.

So your local County Auditor walks out and checks the VIN's on all older cars/trucks whose VIN's aren't under the windshield glass even if the title/sale is within your state?

If so, just never knew it was done. (I reworded and clarified my earlier post)

 

[bmc69]

Here's what I asked earlier, and I need to change it from "all years" to years where VIN's weren't moved under the windshield glass.

Quote from my earlier post. "Are all you guys saying when you buy any year car or truck that your DMV guys actually go out and look at the frame numbers of any & every car/truck/motorcycle before you get new tabs and transferred into your name?"

Here in MD the inspection stations almost always go by the warranty plate VIN. Its' when bad stuff happens, like a serious accident with fatalities, that the authorities move heaven and earth to locate the legal VIN...the one on the frame on pre-80 Ford trucks and Broncos.. That's when I was relieved that my frame VIN was legit and matched the title and registration.

 

[ba123]

I can't possibly read this whole thread, but I searched as much as I could...

What if...I have a friend, who knows that the two don't match, is pretty sure you can't read the one on the frame anyway, the engine for sure doesn't match (but have proof of ownership of that engine and vin) and also owns both Bronco VINs and if "he" ever sells this supposed Bronco, would sell both with it?

 

[bulletpruf]

I can't possibly read this whole thread, but I searched as much as I could...

Shouldn't take you more than 3 minutes or so, but maybe you're really busy?

What if...I have a friend, who knows that the two don't match, is pretty sure you can't read the one on the frame anyway, the engine for sure doesn't match (but have proof of ownership of that engine and vin) and also owns both Bronco VINs and if "he" ever sells this supposed Bronco, would sell both with it?

Early Bronco engines don't have VIN stamps, so that's a non-issue.

But I'm still not sure what you're asking. When you say he "owns both Bronco VINs," do you mean that he has the title to both the official VIN on the frame and the non-matching VIN on the glovebox door warranty tag? If so, your "friend" should sell the Bronco with the title to the VIN on the frame. If he's smart, he'll order a glovebox door warranty tag from Marti to match the frame and title VIN. That should make any potential buyer feel better about what he's buying and will likely add a bit of value.

As for his spare title and glovebox door tag, he can hang on to this as a novelty item or sell it. Some folks will pay $ for a title and a matching glovebox door warranty tag, but they can run into problems if/when they try to use it on a non-matching frame. See the first post for more details.

 

[ba123]

Yeah, in an ideal world unless that VIN were a 76 in CA on the frame…then not good that way. The other is a ‘71.

 

[ba123]

Shouldn't take you more than 3 minutes or so, but maybe you're really busy?

I more meant that I read it but could have missed a part since I read quickly.

 

[bulletpruf]

Bumping an older thread since this topic seems to come up fairly often.