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Leaking proportioning valve

TurboSF

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Apr 2, 2021
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15
My brakes were feeling really spongy, checked fluid level and the reservoir was empty. Refilled and found this leak when pressing on the pedal hard. It is the back of the valve which runs to the rear drums.

I know these valves fail a lot but does this look like a normal failure or perhaps a bad fitting? Everything feels tight.
 

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spap

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Can you tighten that up
Just wondering valve looks pretty new
 

DirtDonk

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Nope, that's not the normal spot. Not sure I've ever seen one leaking there, unless it's at the tube fitting itself and the fluid is just traveling, making it look like it's at the junction of the proportioning valve segment.

The normal leak is from the front circuit, out of the rubber boot over the metering valve (aka "delay valve") and that can sometimes be fixed with a bit of cleaning and re-tightening, or a new o-ring or gasket. But not always, which is why most of them just get replaced.

Good luck. Definitely curious what you find. That's a heck of a leak!
And while I don't think there have been studies to find out which brands are worse than others, if there are any (because they pretty much all can leak), what brand is yours?

Paul
 
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TurboSF

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Apr 2, 2021
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Not sure I've ever seen one leaking there, unless it's at the tube fitting itself and the fluid is just traveling, making it look like it's at the junction of the proportioning valve segment.

Good luck. Definitely curious what you find. That's a heck of a leak!
And while I don't think there have been studies to find out which brands are worse than others, if there are any (because they pretty much all can leak), what brand is yours?

Paul


Definitely doesn't appear to be fluid travel... I cannot post the video here but you can clearly see the direction of fluid coming from that joint. I tried to tighten it up but looks like it made things worse. So I am going to take it out today and see if there is some sort of o-ring in that segment that has failed. Otherwise will need to replace.

The truck is new to me so not sure of the brand but it looks the same as the ones you guys sell on your site, but maybe there are many brands that look the same.

If I end up having to replace it, any suggestions on a better option? I also want to relocate it higher in the engine compartment for ease of accessibility, but how do I extend the lines from the brakes (the solid steel ones) to the new location? Is there some sort of brake line extension kit?
 
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TurboSF

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Apr 2, 2021
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Got the valve off...

Cannot figure out where this could have been leaking other than that little black valve that I circled in red. Not sure what purpose that thing serves but there is no other place I can see that could have been leaking. Any thoughts appreciated.
 

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DirtDonk

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Seems entirely possible, but it could still be that inner o-ring and then leaking past the threads since they're not pipe threads.
Not sure what that doohicky is either. That unit is the actual "proportioning valve" of the overall "combination valve" assembly, but no idea what purpose that small diaphragm looking thingy has.

Regarding brand, I don't know either unless it's a factory GM part. The "PV2" is a common designation from many of the aftermarket companies, such as CPP and MPB and others. I believe that GM used a part like that in original applications (so maybe produced by Bendix?) and have even been told that Ford used an identical part at some point too. But I've never seen a Ford at least from the sixties and seventies that did not use the same rough cast version that we see on '76 and '77 Broncos, and many other Ford vehicles. Never saw a smooth machined piece of brass like these except from the aftermarket.
Maybe it's a part that ca be purchased separately, but likely as not they don't want to sell bits and pieces and only want to sell the entire thing. I can see why, but buying one new might get you a leaker too. And it might not even have the same fitting sizes.
Got pics of your ports? Do they look like all the same size, or do they take different threads? If all the same, it's probably aftermarket. If all different between front and rear, it's likely from a factory installation.

Paul
 
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TurboSF

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Thanks @DirtDonk. Like you said, hard to know if aftermarket or OEM. At this point not sure it matters... good point on the o-ring, I might try to replace that if I can and see if that solves the issue. Do you know if there is supposed to be any type of sealant on the threads, or are they made to just be brass on brass?


Separately, any idea if there are other / better valves that aren't prone to leaking? I saw Wild Horses sells a MOAB valve, but not sure if that works with my application.
 

DirtDonk

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Do you know if there is supposed to be any type of sealant on the threads, or are they made to just be brass on brass?

Because it's under pressure I don't think the thread sealer would be a fix, or even a Band-Aid to a leaking o-ring. Not sure though, so maybe someone else knows. However I'm pretty sure they don't use sealant.
In fact, most recommendations say don't use thread sealer on brake system threads. Don't want anything getting too far in and blocking a port or tube.

Separately, any idea if there are other / better valves that aren't prone to leaking? I saw Wild Horses sells a MOAB valve, but not sure if that works with my application.

Yes, there are other brands that look just like yours, and other types. Our MOAB systems use manually adjustable proportioning valves (from Wilwood), so are a different type altogether. But they're simple, work well and almost never seem to leak. And when they do, it's usually a tube fitting and then those are easy to fix like you would any fluid leak out of a tube.

There are advantages to both types, but it sure would be nice to find a brand of combination valve that was at least more leak-free than most of these others that look like yours. They do work, and they do their jobs, and they sometimes even don't leak. But the percentage of leakers was far too high for me. We still sell them, and back them with replacements (or replacement parts) if yours leak, but we can't test them in-house to see if they leak before shipping them out. And even if we could, the leaks don't always happen immediately, but a few weeks or months down the road. So it could look perfectly good when tested, then leak later. Always something. Right?

I have a manually adjustable one on my '68 and have had no trouble with it. I have a regular stock one on my '79 pickup that I will continue to use (hopefully) once I pull it apart and rebuild it. The metering valve is apparently stuck because I have no front brakes. I can lock up the rears with a gentle push on the pedal, but the fronts do nothing.
So yes, that means that the combination valves for all their goodness definitely offer more failure points than a simple adjustable one. Never heard of one of them failing, though I'm sure it's possible.

As for raising yours or any other up like you want to, that's a great idea and many members here have done it with both the aftermarket and the original combination valves. The two most common positions are either bolted directly to the wheel well just under the master cylinder, or to a bracket connected to the master cylinder directly. That's how our MOAB setup works by the way. The kit comes with new hard lines that are strong enough to hold the valve all by themselves, but that come with a bracket for that extra support anyway. Can't be too careful when it comes to designing a brake system.

If you're going to do it yourself, it's also up to you to make your own hard lines, or have them made to your specifications by someone that does that sort of thing. Companies like "Inline Tube" and others do it all the time. They can often do tight bends like are extremely hard to impossible to do by hand at home.
But for basic shaping/forming of hard lines, it's a fairly simple procedure. You can buy inexpensive bending tools, or even create your own if you're the clever type. You can buy pre-flared lengths of the correct size tubing at most auto parts stores. They come in various lengths from probably as short as 4 or 6 inches, to 36 inches and probably longer.
You figure out how much length you will need to incorporate the bends and end up where you want to at each end, then start the bending process.

It's actually quite fun and relaxing. Well, except for the tool throwing episodes when you kink a tube or find out you used one that ended up not long enough! And yet those are somehow relaxing episodes too sometimes.
Gotta get it out of your system after all. And more tubing is not that much of an expense when you compare it to what else you've spent on the Bronco!

Lots of threads around here showcasing what members have done with their tubing.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Speaking of bending tube, many of use do that same thing with 3/8" metal tubing for PCV valve systems and fuel delivery from the pump to the carburetor. Or even all the way from the tank to the pump.
Fun stuff.

Paul
 
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