Lining up / bolting down the body

[C-Dubb]

Hello everyone, I had to take a break from my bronco for a while but trying to get back started on it again. I am at the point where I want to get my body bolted to the frame and get ready for paint. I had it temporarily bolted down and everything was very close but I have a few questions I was hoping to get some help with.
1) My frame is a tad low on the passenger rear side to side and a little low (3/8”) on the drivers front side to side. My question is should I get the frame as close to level side to side as I can and then bolt down and line up or bolt it down and line it up as it sits?
2) my bronco seems to have a lot of rake back to front, when I temporarily bolted it down I had no lift in the rear and a 1” body lift in the front and it still looks like a lot. Is this normal? I have a 2-1/2” suspension lift and a 351 Windsor EFI.
I appreciate any input.

 

[Speedrdr]

If your frame is sitting on a level surface, my go to would be to shim the top of the body mounts on the “low” corners and level the body that way. If you just snug up the corners then you can see how much to shim the other body mounts to get them all even…well, as even as an EB will be. That’s what I’m having to do with mine to get things more better.
Hope that made sense to you.

Randy

 

[C-Dubb]

If your frame is sitting on a level surface, my go to would be to shim the top of the body mounts on the “low” corners and level the body that way. If you just snug up the corners then you can see how much to shim the other body mounts to get them all even…well, as even as an EB will be. That’s what I’m having to do with mine to get things more better.
Hope that made sense to you.

Randy

Yea, that’s kinda what I was thinking too. I currently have jack stands under the frame with it as level as it will get and will start bolting down and shimming this evening. It looks like I have excessive rake back to front when it is sitting on the suspension, do you know what the rake is supposed to be? Thanks.

 

[Speedrdr]

Yea, that’s kinda what I was thinking too. I currently have jack stands under the frame with it as level as it will get and will start bolting down and shimming this evening. It looks like I have excessive rake back to front when it is sitting on the suspension, do you know what the rake is supposed to be? Thanks.

Are you saying the back is higher or the front is higher? Do you have original springs in rear? Original springs tend to sag letting the back squat. My 1st EB looked like crap and the aft was well below parallel until I resprung both ends and got an even line.

Randy

 

[C-Dubb]

Are you saying the back is higher or the front is higher? Do you have original springs in rear? Original springs tend to sag letting the back squat. My 1st EB looked like crap and the aft was well below parallel until I resprung both ends and got an even line.

Randy

The back is higher. I don’t think any of the springs are original because it appears to have a 2.5” lift that was on it when I got it. I was wondering if the 351w was just really heavy and squatting the front. I can post some pictures after I finish bolting the body down an get it off the jack stands.

 

[Speedrdr]

Shouldn’t be the engine causing the front to sag that much. A 351 only weighs about 65# more than a 302, depending on what iron parts may have been swapped out for aluminum. If you haven’t already checked this, 6” from rear axle tube up and 7” from front axle tube up. Whatever reading you get (front and back), subtract the “normal” measurements from the actual measured amounts and that will tell you what your lift is.
Hopefully this hasn’t muddied the waters for you.

Randy

 

[DirtDonk]

But you can’t check the lift without the body and the rest of the vehicle put together.
The rear is going to sit naturally high, no matter what. Even with stock original sagged springs, you might still sit high in the rear with just a frame and engine.
You can’t even really accurately measure the front even though the engine is the heaviest part. There’s still a lot more to go on the front in addition to the engine.

 

[DirtDonk]

And you can’t level it out, other than just as a temporary way to see how it looks, by putting a different body lift amount under different body mounts.
All eight body insulators are the same exact height on a bronco. To adjust panel gaps and certain other things, Ford added thin shims to certain Locations. But you don’t do that to try to get rid of a rake. That’s all suspension…
Perhaps in your first post you were just saying that’s what you did to get an idea of the amount that it sat high in the rear. I wouldn’t even bother to do that, since the suspension is what’s at work here. Most likely anyway…

You can’t measure the frame’s level height until you compress the suspension to your expected ride height. And get it equal from side to side. Otherwise you won’t know what part of it is suspension related inconsistency, or frame tweakage.
You can do this using ratchet straps to compress the suspension to the expected height. In your case 6 inches plus the 2 1/2 for the lift that you say you have in the back.
Same 2 1/2+7 in the front, if you know you have 2 1/2 inch front springs.

 

[Speedrdr]

But you can’t check the lift without the body and the rest of the vehicle put together.
The rear is going to sit naturally high, no matter what. Even with stock original sagged springs, you might still sit high in the rear with just a frame and engine.
You can’t even really accurately measure the front even though the engine is the heaviest part. There’s still a lot more to go on the front in addition to the engine.

I assumed that the body WAS on, as he said was temporarily bolted on. Whether or not it’s bolted tight or not is irrelevant…well, mostly. The tub and top weight is not going to change the attitude (rake if you prefer) whether the bolts are torqued to spec or not and shouldn’t make more than a half inch at most on the axle to frame measurement.
At least that’s how I envision things.
If I’m wrong, explain it to me why I’m wrong…won’t hurt my feelings.

Randy

 

[Speedrdr]

And you can’t level it out, other than just as a temporary way to see how it looks, by putting a different body lift amount under different body mounts.
All eight body insulators are the same exact height on a bronco. To adjust panel gaps and certain other things, Ford added thin shims to certain Locations. But you don’t do that to try to get rid of a rake. That’s all suspension…
Perhaps in your first post you were just saying that’s what you did to get an idea of the amount that it sat high in the rear. I wouldn’t even bother to do that, since the suspension is what’s at work here. Most likely anyway…

Paul, if the body was not physically on the frame, how would he have known the a$$ end was higher?

You can’t measure the frame’s level height until you compress the suspension to your expected ride height. And get it equal from side to side. Otherwise you won’t know what part of it is suspension related inconsistency, or frame tweakage.
You can do this using ratchet straps to compress the suspension to the expected height. In your case 6 inches plus the 2 1/2 for the lift that you say you have in the back.
Same 2 1/2+7 in the front, if you know you have 2 1/2 inch front springs.

Maybe I missed something in the original post but I thought it read that it was assumed to be a 2 1/2” lift. That’s why I said to measure it so he would have an estimate on what lift was actually there.

 

[jamesroney]

Hello everyone, I had to take a break from my bronco for a while but trying to get back started on it again. I am at the point where I want to get my body bolted to the frame and get ready for paint. I had it temporarily bolted down and everything was very close but I have a few questions I was hoping to get some help with.
1) My frame is a tad low on the passenger rear side to side and a little low (3/8”) on the drivers front side to side. My question is should I get the frame as close to level side to side as I can and then bolt down and line up or bolt it down and line it up as it sits?
2) my bronco seems to have a lot of rake back to front, when I temporarily bolted it down I had no lift in the rear and a 1” body lift in the front and it still looks like a lot. Is this normal? I have a 2-1/2” suspension lift and a 351 Windsor EFI.
I appreciate any input.

Huh?

Are the bumpers installed on your frame yet? If not...they need to be.

1. Secure the bumpers and make them square to the frame. There is some tolerance in the holes, so get them as close to square and even as possible. Measure front to back on each side, and get them right. Then measure diagonally. You don't want a parallelogram. You want a square. (you know what i mean...)
2. Take a jack and make ONE bumper perfectly level from side to side. If you don't have a jack, deflate one tire until the bumper is dead level.
3. MEASURE the level of the other bumper. It needs to be perfectly level. If it is not level, STOP and go to the frame machine.
4. Measure the level of the rear bed floor rail, and the windshield hinge. If they are not level, STOP and figure out why.
5. MOVE the body fore and aft, left and right, and twisted so that the body is centered, and square to the BUMPERS. Make sure that the core support is centered on the frame where the radiator brackets go.

You can't see the frame on a Bronco very well, but your eye can notice gaps very well. Get your (bumper to grill) and (bumper to taillight) right, and then bolt it down tight.


Your suspension lift is a product of 50 years of spring evolution. The spring rates are very carefully calculated to have 2.5 inches of nominal lift when loaded with a spare tire, 20 gallons of fuel, and a hardtop. They are super soft and flexible and move several inches.

 

[C-Dubb]

I currently have the frame as level side to side as it will get and the body is sitting on the bushings and a few shims where needed. I am still trying to get my door gaps set and having a lot of fun with that right now so any suggestions would be appreciated. I don’t have bumpers yet but have been measuring to make sure the body is centered and as square with the frame as I can get it. I measured for the lift prior to trying to level the frame and those measurements suggested the 2.5” lift. Understanding that rake is in the suspension, I will deal with that once I have the body bolted down. I will gladly take all the advice I can get to get it bolted down correctly. I will post a pic as soon as I remember how. Thanks.

 

[DirtDonk]

I assumed that the body WAS on, as he said was temporarily bolted on. Whether or not it’s bolted tight or not is irrelevant…well, mostly. The tub and top weight is not going to change the attitude (rake if you prefer) whether the bolts are torqued to spec or not and shouldn’t make more than a half inch at most on the axle to frame measurement.
At least that’s how I envision things.

Paul, if the body was not physically on the frame, how would he have known the a$$ end was higher?

Maybe I missed something in the original post but I thought it read that it was assumed to be a 2 1/2” lift. That’s why I said to measure it so he would have an estimate on what lift was actually there.

You're not wrong. But my point was that it sounded like they were talking about before the body was mounted, and after it was laid on top. And that to get rid of a rake in the frame, they were adding body lift to just the front half.
None of that is appropriate, even to the point of letting the full weight of the body lay on the frame. As said, it's not enough to reduce a rake of the rear springs holding things up, and is not an appropriate way to measure things.
Or tell if the frame is crooked, or the suspension is uneven.
Or to fix things that are out of whack.

Just adding the body on the frame is not enough to compensate for the weight of the engine in the front. Especially when it sounds like the springs are of unknown age and origin.

So, my basic point was that there are a few more things to take into account, before trying to fix body lines for paint.
Unfortunately too, if you have to take it all apart again after lining things up, for paint or whatever, chances are pretty good that things will have changed and you're going to have to go through all the rigamarole of lining up panels again. Seen that many times...

Paul

 

[C-Dubb]

Are the bumpers installed on your frame yet? If not...they need to be.

Not sure why, but I had not thought about using the bumpers until just now. I will be holding off on permanently bolting anything down until everything is lined up with the bumpers on. Thanks.

 

[C-Dubb]

4. Measure the level of the rear bed floor rail, and the windshield hinge. If they are not level, STOP and figure out why.

Appreciate this too, was having trouble with shimming to get the door gaps close. When I leveled the rear bed rail and the windshield frame only, everything almost lined up perfectly. Thanks again.