Narrowed 78/79 Dana 44 castor

[widowmaker77]

I m thinking of buying a high pinion 78/79 Dana 44. I would narrow the long side 6 inches.
I’ve been looking on here and reading what ever I can find but I have a question.
For anyone that’s used one of these axles, is the castor numbers any better than the original bronco Dana 44? I have a 77 44 in my 66 now, 3.5 duff coils 7degree bushings stock radius arms. I’ll admit I should definitely re measure but the readings I got on my angle finder was 1 degree positive castor with all of the above compontants. It doesn’t drive good at all. I’m going to order the duff dual sport steering but need to figure out what axle I will be running first. I have to build another axle for this 66 at some point anyway and I have found this high pinion 44 and thought possibly it will have better castor numbers and I won’t need to spend extra money on a set of long arms right now. Can anyone help me out with this??

I also already have a 73 bronco housing I could cut the outer c’s and use but at some point the bearing caps have been lost. Not really sure if can get away with using another set of caps as I’m pretty sure the they were machined to that housing. Anyone have any info on this also? Thanks for any
Help.

 

[1969miller]

Are you retubing this housing? If not i would look for the older weld wedge housing.

 

[widowmaker77]

Are you retubing this housing? If not i would look for the older weld wedge housing.

No sir. Believe me I’ve been looking for a 77 or older for a while now. Nothing close by. I’m sure it would cost an arm and leg to get a housing shipped from somewhere. Narrowing the the long side of this high pinion won’t be an issue but if the castor will still be way off then that a whole other issue and I’d be right back where I am now. Just with a different axle.

 

[1969miller]

you have more room to lean the axle back with this housing though because it will be high pinion and driveline angle is less of an issue.

 

[jamesroney]

I m thinking of buying a high pinion 78/79 Dana 44.
For anyone that’s used one of these axles, is the castor numbers any better than the original bronco Dana 44? I have a 77 44 in my 66 now, 3.5 duff coils 7degree bushings stock radius arms. Can anyone help me out with this?

Better castor? This is a sketch written on my garage wall. As you can see, the Bronco and F100 have nominally very similar caster built into the housing. And the EB is better by 1 degree. So the answer is “no.”

But the high pinion in the F100 means that you don’t need nearly as much pinion inclination, which you can convert to caster. So the answer is “yes.” (oops, I see that @1969miller already answered...)

A typical Bronco 44 with a 3.5 lift and 7 degree bushings will have caster of about 3 degrees, and the u-joint will be almost binding. It will be almost undriveable. Certainly unpleasant.

A f100 cut 6 inches on one side and properly turned will put driveshaft yoke into the exhaust or the pumpkin in the pan. Do not ever cut one side of a high pinion. Full width is fine, or else cut more off the short side. Running EB shafts in a narrowed high pinion is bad. (But cheap.)

 

[widowmaker77]

A f100 cut 6 inches on one side and properly turned will put driveshaft yoke into the exhaust or the pumpkin in the pan. Do not ever cut one side of a high pinion. Full width is fine, or else cut more off the short side. Running EB shafts in a narrowed high pinion is bad. (But cheap.)

Thanks for the info James. I’m a little confused here where you say “ or else cut more off the short side” could you elaborate a little more here? From what I’ve read, the long side needs to be shortened 6” and the short side somewhere in the neighborhood of 5/8” to
Make it the same width as the low pinion 44.

 

[bmc69]

Do not ever cut one side of a high pinion.

Gee. The many I've done over the last 25 years that were successfully wheeled to oblivion just exhaled a huge collective sigh.

 

[jamesroney]

Gee. The many I've done over the last 25 years that were successfully wheeled to oblivion just exhaled a huge collective sigh.

Because you are higher than 3.5 inch lift…

 

[jamesroney]

Thanks for the info James. I’m a little confused here where you say “ or else cut more off the short side” could you elaborate a little more here? From what I’ve read, the long side needs to be shortened 6” and the short side somewhere in the neighborhood of 5/8” to
Make it the same width as the low pinion 44.

The issue is the location of the pumpkin with respect to the chassis centerline. When you run full width, it moves the pumpkin outboard towards the drivers side by 3 inches. But as you cut off just the one side, the pumpkin (and pinion) move towards the oil pan. The first point of contact is the pinion yoke into the drivers exhaust pipe. Then the next is the shoulder of the pumpkin into the oil pan. If you go 4.5 inch lift or more, AND you add bump stops AND you run a kink in your front driveshaft u-joint…you can “get by”

But if you make the high pinion co-linear to the front shaft, and you run 3.5 lift you will wish your pumpkin was 1 inch further outboard.

There is no shortage of Broncos out there with that combination…and I’ve built a few that way. @bmc69 might have some pics showing the amount of clearance you get with that combo.

The low pinion housing has more room in that area. And I am well aware that keeping the 5/8 on the short side lets you use the F150 inner shaft. And the 5/8 only moves the pumpkin 5/16 of an inch over. So if I’m building it for cheap, I only cut the long side ~4-3/4 inches and run the axle an inch wider on each side, to keep the pumpkin outboard.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[widowmaker77]

@jamesroney i think I see what you saying. So if I both sides, in order to move the pumpkin over AND keep both wheels in the fender the same amount as a low pinion, would you cut the short side 5/8 but instead of cutting the long side 6” cut it 5 1/8” or Am I not looking at it right?

 

[jamesroney]

@jamesroney i think I see what you saying. So if I both sides, in order to move the pumpkin over AND keep both wheels in the fender the same amount as a low pinion, would you cut the short side 5/8 but instead of cutting the long side 6” cut it 5 1/8” or Am I not looking at it right?

You are looking at it almost exactly right.

If you want EB width, you need to cut 6-5/8 inches out of it. (5.997 and .625) The "normal" method is to cut 6 off the long side, and 5/8 off the short side so that you can use "Bronco" length inner axles.

So no, it's not 5/8 and 5-1/8 because that only gets you 5-3/4.

If you take 5/8 off the short side, you need 6 off the long side.
if you take 5 off the long side, you need to take 1-5/8 off the short side. That will move the driveshaft / pumpkin outboard by 1/2 inch.

But then you would have to have two custom axles made...

 

[widowmaker77]

I gotcha now. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I can definitely do both sides if it means not running into oil pan and other issues.

 

[Apogee]

If you're willing to go through the effort of narrowing an HP D44, then why not just rotate the knuckles at the same time to provide whatever caster you want? I'm in the middle of doing my HP D44 swap now, but I'm leaving it full-width at 65". That said, I still removed the wedges and knuckles so that I could set not only the caster, but also the pinion angle. Not that it really matters, but I'm running the CAGE long arms at EB width and 3.5" suspension lift.

 

[Madgyver]

why not run it as is? Full width.
a simple task.

 

[widowmaker77]

If you're willing to go through the effort of narrowing an HP D44, then why not just rotate the knuckles at the same time to provide whatever caster you want? I'm in the middle of doing my HP D44 swap now, but I'm leaving it full-width at 65". That said, I still removed the wedges and knuckles so that I could set not only the caster, but also the pinion angle. Not that it really matters, but I'm running the CAGE long arms at EB width and 3.5" suspension lift.

These wedges are cast into the axle. Are the c’s removable?

why not run it as is? Full width.
a simple task.

not looking for that stance on this one. Also ive already painted the frame and don’t really want to move the coil buckets out and reweld it all.

 

[widowmaker77]

I’m digging the way she sits

 

[Apogee]

These wedges are cast into the axle. Are the c’s removable?

Sorry, I was thinking about the 1977 and earlier HP D44 housing stuff...the wedges are cast on the 78/79, but the outers are pressed and welded just like the earlier units IIRC.

 

[bmc69]

Narrowed D44 with 3/4 ton outers...one of many I did. Some were trussed on the top..some on the bottom...none ever broke (axles and u-joints excepted..LOL)
And yep...all stainless steel holobar links. One of the side benefits of having "scrap" left over in your marine products business.

 

[widowmaker77]

Narrowed D44 with 3/4 ton outers...one of many I did. Some were trussed on the top..some on the bottom...none ever broke (axles and u-joints excepted..LOL)
And yep...all stainless steel holobar links. One of the side benefits of having "scrap" left over in your marine products business.
View attachment 926691

Nice! Did you narrow both sides or just the long side?

 

[bmc69]

Nice! Did you narrow both sides or just the long side?

I only narrow the long side by 6" when I do that mod.