Possible 4R70W donor

[badandy73]

Have a buddy who's got what's believed to be a 4R70W sitting in his parts yard, would like to know if it's the correct model to consider swapping in for my c4. It's paired to a roller? 302 that came out of a mid-nineties F150 from what he was told- although it has a tail shaft on it, which doesn't make sense.

Casting # RF-F4ZP-7006-AA and a riveted tag on the opposite side with other codes on it. From what I can tell with a quick search of the numbers it comes up with a mustang trans?

Could any of you transmission gurus tell me if it would be possible to change it over the 4WD setup, or is it not worth the hassle?

 

[bigmuddy]

Tailshaft can be swapped with the AA adaptor I beleive.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I think that MLPS is the analog one? Bet the solenoids are the wrong ones as well. Might even be an AOD-E and not 4R70W, main difference is the gear ratios are the AOD ratios with the tall 1st gear and taller OD.

What you have there is a core. It would need going through and conversion parts to make work.

Roller 302 would be correct for being mated to that transmission. Someone knows the exact year, but early 90s(?) the trucks got a roller cam for the 302. That was a few years before the 351 got the roller cam.

 

[904Bronco]

Casting # RF-F4ZP-7006-AA and a riveted tag on the opposite side with other codes on it. From what I can tell with a quick search of the numbers it comes up with a mustang trans?

If you Google that casting number it comes back as a 92-97 4R70W (white control plug) on a number of forums, Including this one...

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/aode-w-4r70w.265520/

 

[badandy73]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Looks like I'd need to do a little more research before seriously considering it.

 

[badandy73]

Reviving this thread as I'm taking another pass at switching to a 4R.

Have a couple feelers out on two other potential donors. One is from a '98 5.0 mountaineer 4x4, while the other is out of an early 2000's mustang with a 4.6. The mountaineer unit is complete with the transfer case, etc. Either one I'd treat as a core and have rebuilt and at the same time swap out the output shaft from the AA kit.

Couple of questions in no particular order:

Is the bellhousing pattern on the mod motors same as the windsor?

Has anyone figured out a way to keep the stock auto column shift, assuming you could technically use it but would never be able to downshift all the way down to 1st gear, which would kind of defeat the point. Would plan on using the U.S. Shift controller, don't know if there is a way to get around it using that?

If I'm unable to use the stock column, what's the preference on shifters; winters floor kit, lokar, complete aftermarket tilt for an AOD if I wanted to keep it on the column?

 

[Jaybr]

I don’t know what the preference is but I got my 4r from a 97 mountaineer and have a U.S. Shift module and Ididit auto column, Lokar linkage.

Lick Creek Restorations rebuilt the tranny and installed the Advanced Adapter with the rebuild.

I’m still in the process of putting it all together so can’t speak for drivability yet.

I bought the whole mountaineer for $600 and pulled what I wanted and sold the rest. Basically got the tranny and front dress for free and made a couple hundred selling off the rest.


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[thegreatjustino]

Has anyone figured out a way to keep the stock auto column shift,

@Viperwolf1 did so by adding an overdrive button to the end of his column shifter. I tried to find his build thread with info without luck.

 

[bax]

the 4.6 bolt pattern is different than the 5.0. So that's a no go. The 98 5.0 is a good choice. if you need a motor I would swap it all into the bronco and use the factory computer. At some point the between 98 and 2000 the 4r got another upgrade. I dont know what the upgrade was it's just what I have read is some posts. My 96 works just fine. I use a locar floor shifter with the cable.

 

[rocknhorse76]

The 98-01 Explorer/Mountaineer units are the best options for mounting to a 302 or 351W. They have the digital (black) plug and already have the mechanical diode upgrade along with usually having the correct solenoids. Mine is from a low mileage 2000 Mountaineer AWD. All I did was flush it out, replace the pump seal and pan gasket, and change out the converter to a 2200 stall unit. I am running a NWF Titan 205 setup behind it with the factory adapter, Quick 4 controller, and Winters shifter.

 

[badandy73]

Sounds like the mountaineer is the one to go with. It's going behind a blueprint 306 that's likely going to be identifying as a 347 here soon.

Already running the exploder front dress, so I'll have to pick up a new balancer from damper dudes for the 28oz, higher stall torque converter, flex plate, etc. Still164T I assume, is the starter the same 2-bolt style? Anything else I'm overlooking?

 

[Jaybr]

The Blueprint 306 is 50 oz imbalance, not 28 oz.

I used this flex plate https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atp-z157

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[badandy73]

Jaybr, correct- been running mine for a few years. It's currently back at blueprint being torn down due to an ongoing oil consumption issue and leaning towards having them stroke it out to a 347 while its there, which is 28oz balance.

 

[Jaybr]

Jaybr, correct- been running mine for a few years. It's currently back at blueprint being torn down due to an ongoing oil consumption issue and leaning towards having them stroke it out to a 347 while its there, which is 28oz balance.

Ah, sorry about that and don’t know anything about the 28 oz plates. Mine is 164t and I assume you need the same. There are also a couple sizes of flex plate and you will need the larger (11”?) for the 4r or the starter won’t engage. The starter on the 4r is two hole, I had a new one on the 302/C4 setup and moved it over.


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[rocknhorse76]

Sounds like the mountaineer is the one to go with. It's going behind a blueprint 306 that's likely going to be identifying as a 347 here soon.

Already running the exploder front dress, so I'll have to pick up a new balancer from damper dudes for the 28oz, higher stall torque converter, flex plate, etc. Still164T I assume, is the starter the same 2-bolt style? Anything else I'm overlooking?

Use the starter from the donor vehicle. They have a PMGR starter with integrated solenoid. Easy to wire up and pulls less current than a stock Bronco starter. I bought mine at the local Ford dealership.
Oh, and I’m also running the 28oz damper from Damper Dudes. Nice product.

 

[badandy73]

Ah, sorry about that and don’t know anything about the 28 oz plates. Mine is 164t and I assume you need the same. There are also a couple sizes of flex plate and you will need the larger (11”?) for the 4r or the starter won’t engage. The starter on the 4r is two hole, I had a new one on the 302/C4 setup and moved it over.


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Use the starter from the donor vehicle. They have a PMGR starter with integrated solenoid. Easy to wire up and pulls less current than a stock Bronco starter. I bought mine at the local Ford dealership.
Oh, and I’m also running the 28oz damper from Damper Dudes. Nice product.

Haven't had any issues running the TCI 529620 with the 50oz setup so looking at their 529105 for the 28oz.

Been using the PMGR for years now with no problems, great upgrade. Just wanted to double check on the hole pattern as I'd thought I heard there was a 3-hole pattern maybe on the units that came behind the mod motors.

 

[badandy73]

Got some pics from the seller of the 5.0 mountaineer trans, looks a little rougher than I originally thought but should clean up fine. Noticed it's missing the OEM black box that goes over the shift shaft but wouldn't be needing that anyway, correct? From what I understand, if its got the black plug going into the valve body that should confirm '98 and above?

Going to go take a look at it this weekend, any other specifics I should be looking for or red flags where I should pass on it? Does the OE dipstick (appears to be missing) work for a bronco or is it best to go with a Lokar or other aftermarket?

 

[rocknhorse76]

You will need the black box on the shifter shaft as it contains the gear position switch and neutral safety switch. Also, the PMGR starter you’re using now won’t work with the 4R. You’ll need one for an Exploder or Mountaineer. Oh, and just get the Lokar dipstick.

 

[badandy73]

Thanks rocknhorse, assuming the lack of the shift selector/ NSS wouldn't be a deal breaker on this one and I'd be able pick one up on rock auto or at a dealership? I was looking at shift shafts similar to the link below so didn't think I'd need it, but hadn't thought of the NSS:

https://tomsoffroad.com/parts/ford-aode-4r70w-automatic-transmission-selector-shaft-and-arm

For sure the 2 bolt starter I have won't fit due to a different offset with the 4R bellhousing/ flexplate?

 

[Broncobowsher]

It's not the NSS that is the issue. That black box tells the computer what gear you have the shifter in. Reverse will command a higher line pressure by the computer. It will also tell you that the shifter is in drive and will know to go through the gears. If you select 2 or 1 it will command the shift solenoids to shift into those gears (if the speed isn't too excessive). You need that MLPS (Manual Lever Position Sensor) for the operation of the transmission, not just a start safety feature and back up light switch.