Rear quarter replacement

[broncbusted]

Ok, today I removed the lower rear quarters that were cut. It was really not tooo bad!! I have decided to use panel adhesive on the top seal when replacing the new panels. I have cleaned up the spot welds and rust that was formed at the joint of the top and bottom panels. When I install the new panels should the adhesive be used on bare metal or should I use a primer? I want the best bond between the two. How did you guys do it?

Thanks

 

[Crawdad]

Shoot a PM to Allenhaney. He seems to be the man with all the answers to bodywork. There are others out there that I am forgeting and dont mean to. Throw some pics up and take lots of them. I plan to do the same come this fall. Where did you get your panels from? Where are you located in SC? Is this Casey?

 

[allenfahey]

You need bare metal on both mating surfaces. You will also need to be able to clamp the two pieces together every 4-5 inches. For the body seam area it will be difficult to get clamps or vise grips in there. You can use screws and later use seam sealer to cover the holes. Check you tube for panel adhesive.

 

[broncbusted]

Shoot a PM to Allenhaney. He seems to be the man with all the answers to bodywork. There are others out there that I am forgeting and dont mean to. Throw some pics up and take lots of them. I plan to do the same come this fall. Where did you get your panels from? Where are you located in SC? Is this Casey?

Hello Crawdad, thanks for the info,I bought my panels from BroncoGraveyard. They seem to be good panels, made in China!!!! but what isn't these days. I haven't tried to fit the panels yet so I can't comment on that. I will later after the installation. I did take several pictures and will post some in the future, probably after the install. No I am not Casey, i live in a small town called Beech Island, its about an hour from Columbia. Its near Augusta Georgia.

 

[Crawdad]

Beech Island huh?!!! Glad to have you on board! There is a young fella that has a red half-cab on 35s on the last exit (Hwy 230) on the way to the N Aug Country Club towards Edgefield. I hunted him down while working w/ the forestry dept one day. Yeah post pics up on everything you do. If you messed up on a step dont be embarrassed to let us know. Lord knows I want to learn from your mistakes! But I bet I wont be the only one either. I bought lots of Cleco pins off Amazon. They work really well for our sheetmetal guys at McEntire so I figures I would try them out. Drill a lil hole and pop in a Cleco pin and it actually pulls the two metals together. So if using adhesive that "may" help if clamps are not useable. I probably have about a 100 of different sizes, really cheap to buy. You can also use them for spot welds which is what I plan to do. Here are some websites to check out if interested in Clecos.

http://search.eastwood.com/search?w...sn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NonBr-Autobody

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cart/view-...GM2UYWEXQK,1|CSQNUNFHACE0M,1|C3JX5DFKCV0SVE,1

 

[broncbusted]

You need bare metal on both mating surfaces. You will also need to be able to clamp the two pieces together every 4-5 inches. For the body seam area it will be difficult to get clamps or vise grips in there. You can use screws and later use seam sealer to cover the holes. Check you tube for panel adhesive.

Thanks allenfahey, I searched youtube and found several on the adhesive. The 3M 8115 product looks good, have you used it? Which product would you reccommend? I was planning on using screws to hold panel in place while the adhesive sets. I was planning on using the adhesive only on the top of the panel but after watching the video I may use it everywhere except the rear vertical connection. Thoughts? I like the idea of the adhesive sealing the panel. I found a lot of rust at the joint when I was removing the old panel.

 

[broncbusted]

Crawdad,sounds like you know your way around these parts. There are a few Early Broncos around here but not often seen. I have been on this site for a while and working off and on my 1976. I get burnt out and out of money and stop for a while. I have the chasis and drivetrain finished but am doing the bodywork now and its going sloooooooooow! I am learning as I go and thanks to the people on this site even a dummy like me can learn something. Yeah I have some of the clecos and clamps also, I think in this case I will use some self drilling screws to hold the panel. Oh yeah about messing up, I have done my share and I am sure its not over yet!

 

[Tomdee]

broncbusted, I replaced both rear 1/4s and used 8115, The instructions"use 50 grit on mating surfaces" and the verticals frt&rear should be welded.very happy with results!
btw, it has a one year shelf life!!
good luck!!

 

[allenfahey]

8115 is what we use here at work. I just got done using it on my Bronco's windshield frame hinge. Make sure when you switch the nozzle to purge it real good so it's thoroughly mixed.

 

[Revelation]

Stainless/Stainless pop rivets work wonders holding things in place!

 

[Mark]

I sandwiched them with seam sealer and secured it to the upper quarter panel with 1/4" stainless bolts. Applied POR 15 over all.

Stainless pop rivets is a good suggestion too Revelation.
You can get some big strong-ass rivets...

 

[Revelation]

Stainless pop rivets is a good suggestion too Revelation.
You can get some big strong-ass rivets...

I used 1/8" on mine, Holding in all the floors, firewall, front inners, and rear quarters and none are welded in.. I only used seam sealer, not adhesive. 2 years and 14,000 miles none have come loose.

 

[allenfahey]

I used 1/8" on mine, Holding in all the floors, firewall, front inners, and rear quarters and none are welded in.. I only used seam sealer, not adhesive. 2 years and 14,000 miles none have come loose.

They'll hold till you get in an accident. If it's a bad accident you will get hurt or worse.

 

[sellitall]

8115 is what we use here at work. I just got done using it on my Bronco's windshield frame hinge. Make sure when you switch the nozzle to purge it real good so it's thoroughly mixed.

Have you ever had to remove the adhesive from a previous repair on say a 1/4 or roof? I always wondered if it was a PITA to get off. At least with welds you have sort of a "mapping" as to where you need to remove the welds.

My father has been a bodyman for 53 years and he is as old school as it gets by today's standards. I've seen the reps come in trying to get him to try the adhesives, but he refuses. I always wanted to try it.

BUT, as for resto work I will ALWAYS weld. To me the adhesives inception was marketed more for the collison aspect of the autobody industry because of its quicker turn around. Resto work is on the other spectrum and drilling and welding holes is a necessary evil I'll stick to. In the scheme of things welding up the floors or windshield frame is only a tiny fraction of the time needed to perform a proper repair on any restoration. Not saying the adhesive wouldn't work good on a resto, but I know my mig & panelspotter will get the panel on;D!!

 

[allenfahey]

Have you ever had to remove the adhesive from a previous repair on say a 1/4 or roof? I always wondered if it was a PITA to get off. At least with welds you have sort of a "mapping" as to where you need to remove the welds.

My father has been a bodyman for 53 years and he is as old school as it gets by today's standards. I've seen the reps come in trying to get him to try the adhesives, but he refuses. I always wanted to try it.

BUT, as for resto work I will ALWAYS weld. To me the adhesives inception was marketed more for the collison aspect of the autobody industry because of its quicker turn around. Resto work is on the other spectrum and drilling and welding holes is a necessary evil I'll stick to. In the scheme of things welding up the floors or windshield frame is only a tiny fraction of the time needed to perform a proper repair on any restoration. Not saying the adhesive wouldn't work good on a resto, but I know my mig & panelspotter will get the panel on;D!!

It's very easy to remove the panel, you use heat from a propane torch and it will release. Adhesives aren't just faster but they are a better repair. They are far stronger than welding and the corrosion protection is better too. The seam at the upper and lower 1/4's of the Bronco is a prime example of corrosion problem area from the factory. At work the body men either use the adhesive or they use the Prospot. Hardly anything is mig welded at our shop.

 

[broncodriver99]

The seam at the upper and lower 1/4's of the Bronco is a prime example of corrosion problem area from the factory.

This is one seam that I am seriously considering using the adhesive on my project. Seems like no matter how careful and how much seam sealer you use the rust always comes back. The adhesive would have to do a better job of keeping the moisture out.

 

[Revelation]

They'll hold till you get in an accident. If it's a bad accident you will get hurt or worse.

I was incorrect about the size I used, they were 3/16" and I am not to worried about it, there are over 800 (and I drilled every hole) and they are Single Shear Strength (Lbs.) 1150, Tensile Strength (Lb.) 1300.

There are as many rivets in mine as there would have been spot welds. Been on some tough body tweaking trails following Ford Man and as I said, none have loosened.

 

[sellitall]

It's very easy to remove the panel, you use heat from a propane torch and it will release. Adhesives aren't just faster but they are a better repair. They are far stronger than welding and the corrosion protection is better too. The seam at the upper and lower 1/4's of the Bronco is a prime example of corrosion problem area from the factory. At work the body men either use the adhesive or they use the Prospot. Hardly anything is mig welded at our shop.

The strength of the adhesive v mig welder comes soley from the amount of contact the adhesive has with the panel. For example, if I took two pieces of 18 gauge sheetmetal and butt welded them together v two pieces using adhesive I would put my money on the mig'd piece anyday. You just can't run a solid bead of weld on most panels (especially todays sheetmetal). As for overall strength nothing beats heat and metal with shielding gas which fuses adjoining metal together. Unless you know of some alien technology from the galaxy far, far away you have no argument on that.

I definitely see your point though. One major advantage with adhesive is it IS the rust inhibitor. After you mig a panel on you have to apply seam sealer to prevent rust. You also use weld-thru primer BEFORE welding which we all know can't withstand the heat caused by mig welding, and will thus promote oxidation on the compromised metal.

I've restored alot of vehicles using just a mig welder without any rust issues at the seams or areas that I've welded. Most vehicles I own and have done aren't left outdoors when not driven. They are also not daily drivers. Maybe that helps...IDK. I can say that I prep really well before paint which is the key to a good finished product.

As for the spot welder you plugged (no punn intended) it's one hell of a piece of work. My buddy has one at the shop he works at. I couldn't even tell you what it costs. Nor could he, but I know it gets locked up in the cage at night along with the other $$$ tools which could potentially walk out of the shop after hours. Highly doubt anyone on the site is gonna buck up for one of them to hang a set of 1/4's.

 

[allenfahey]

The strength of the adhesive v mig welder comes soley from the amount of contact the adhesive has with the panel. For example, if I took two pieces of 18 gauge sheetmetal and butt welded them together v two pieces using adhesive I would put my money on the mig'd piece anyday.

That's exactly the test that the 3M rep did back when the adhesives came out. He had a bodyman lap weld two pieces of sheetmetal together and then bonded another piece to that. He then clamped both ends of the sheetmetal in the frame machine and pulled them apart. The weld failed first, ripped right at the weld. Then they clamped the bonded pieces in the frame machine and the metal ripped near one of the clamps. The area around the bonded piece was fine. Try it sometime, it is impressive.
You still need to weld at the seams like up the sail panel or the dog leg on a quarter. It will make a line there in the bake cycle of the booth or in the summer sun.

 

[Crawdad]

You still need to weld at the seams like up the sail panel or the dog leg on a quarter. It will make a line there in the bake cycle of the booth or in the summer sun.

Educate me on this, what is the "sail panel" and "dog leg"? Thx!