roll cage weld in vs bolt in

[moe d]

I'm doing a frame off restoration in about a year or 2 and plan on tieing in my cage to the frame. I want to install the roll cage now for a little added protection. I was going to weld it to my floor pans but figured removal can be a bitch when i decide to remove the body and weld it( roll cage ) to the frame. So then i thought i can just bolt it in, that way it will be easier to remove.. Is there much difference to welding to floor boards compared to bolting to the floor boards? I didnt think there was considering it is still attached to the body and not the frame..

 

[Mark]

Bolt it in. Use grade 8 bolts.

 

[Steve83]

There's absolutely no advantage to keeping the frame with you if you roll. It's just more weight that can kill you. If it rips loose from the body, count yourself lucky. Run the cage across the floor & tie the seats & belts to it.

If you're using the cage to keep a crappy body attached to a crappy frame with crappy mounts, you need to adjust your priorities.

 

[Apogee]

Bolt it in...welding to the 18 guage sheetmetal doesn't gain you anything and is in fact not as strong as a properly sandwiched bolt set up. Plus, like you said, it'll be a PITA to remove...my PO has already done me the favor of bolting and welding the 4-point into my EB and neither is done particularly well. Make sure that you have large plates under the body to match the foot pads on the roll bar. I've seen washers pull through the body, so I wouldn't go that route myself.

 

[moe d]

thanks for the input! Will be bolting it in this week!

 

[RV77]

Hey Moe -Where did you get that cage ? How much was it w/shipping ? Im looking to get one also.....

Thanks Rick

 

[moe d]

i PM'd ya

 

[WyleCoyote]

There's absolutely no advantage to keeping the frame with you if you roll. It's just more weight that can kill you. If it rips loose from the body, count yourself lucky. Run the cage across the floor & tie the seats & belts to it.

If you're using the cage to keep a crappy body attached to a crappy frame with crappy mounts, you need to adjust your priorities.

I think the point is not to keep the frame attached to the body, the point is when you are upside down, and the cage is being used, the frame is being supported by the 18ga sheetmetal floor...I've seen pics where the legs of the cage punch through the floor. Tieing the cage to the frame means the frame is supported.

Oh, and I don't see anywhere in this thread that he is using a cage to keep a crappy body attached to a crappy frame.

 

[Steve83]

I didn't say it, either. I said "If..."

BTW
Don't use identical plates above & below the sheet metal - it causes the body to work-harden along that line & crack. They can be the same if they're not silhouetted, so their edges don't align. For instance: 2 triangles offset like a star-of-David.

 

[moe d]

gotcha.. just put the cage in tonight, bolting everything in tomorrow

 

[Johnny]

If you're using the cage to keep a crappy body attached to a crappy frame with crappy mounts,

Hey.. You been looking at my Bronco ??

 

[WyleCoyote]

Don't use identical plates above & below the sheet metal - it causes the body to work-harden along that line & crack. They can be the same if they're not silhouetted, so their edges don't align. For instance: 2 triangles offset like a star-of-David.

That's good to know, never thought about that but it makes sense.

 

[68ford]

or you can run a smaller sleeve inside the tube where it goes through the floor making a theoretical solid tube going all the way to the frame. then the plates just help support the body. then under any side load to pulling load the force isnt on the bolts.

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I am installing a cage so in my fullsize Bronco. Planned on sandwiching the floor between plates, i.e. bolting it in. But also planned on running tubes from the bottom plates over to the frame. So basically I will have a welded in cage that can be unbolted.

For the bolt in vs not bolted in debate I went to several chassis shops for advice. If you are going to barrel roll at 100mph, want it welded to the frame. If you are going to roll over on the trail, bolt in should be fine and allows you to remove or install the cage easily.

 

[Steve83]

If you are going to barrel roll at 100mph, want it welded to the frame.

No, you want as LITTLE weight staying with you as possible. It keeps you moving (bouncing around) longer, and hammers more against the cage (like cracking a walnut). That's why race boats have a 'capsule' that separates from the rest of the boat - it's safer for the driver inside to let go of all that dead weight during a crash. Same for the passenger compartment of a truck - get away from the chassis so it doesn't kill you or crush you inside your cage.

 

[Project_bronco]

No, you want as LITTLE weight staying with you as possible. It keeps you moving (bouncing around) longer, and hammers more against the cage (like cracking a walnut). That's why race boats have a 'capsule' that separates from the rest of the boat - it's safer for the driver inside to let go of all that dead weight during a crash. Same for the passenger compartment of a truck - get away from the chassis so it doesn't kill you or crush you inside your cage.

Who wants to volunteer to test this so we can prove it? ;D

 

[Socal Tom]

No, you want as LITTLE weight staying with you as possible. It keeps you moving (bouncing around) longer, and hammers more against the cage (like cracking a walnut). That's why race boats have a 'capsule' that separates from the rest of the boat - it's safer for the driver inside to let go of all that dead weight during a crash. Same for the passenger compartment of a truck - get away from the chassis so it doesn't kill you or crush you inside your cage.

The way I see it it all depends on how you mount your seats and belts. If the seats and belts are bolted to the cage, then I don't see a huge advantage in keeping the body and the frame with you ( though if you are bolted to the frame you are less likely to run into it 2 rolls from now). But if you bolt your seats to the body and just attach part of the seat belt to the cage, then you damn well need it all to stay together. If you don't then when it comes apart you come flying out, or the seat belt cuts you in half. Neither is a good story.
Tom

 

[Steve83]

If the seats and belts are bolted to the cage, then I don't see a huge advantage in keeping the body and the frame with you...

Run the cage across the floor & tie the seats & belts to it.

%)

...if you are bolted to the frame you are less likely to run into it 2 rolls from now).

Right: you'll run into it EVERY roll! ...or it'll run into you, depending on how you look at it.