speaking of EFI, anyone use this product?

[NJB71]

saw this product on youtube, not cheap, but cheaper then performance plug n play EFI systems....has anyone here used this? or know of product?


http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/powerjection-iii/powerjection-iii-system.html

 

[DirtDonk]

We've had several discussions about that type over the past couple of years NJB, but I don't remember anyone here saying they've actually used one.
Be interesting to hear what comes up now that you've brought it up again though.
Hope someone has more info for you.

Paul

 

[NJB71]

I went onto another Ford site, and basically a guy explained it as, good product, BUT system based on speed density, and said the EFI of choice for ease of use, maintaining, tuning is MAF.....

 

[Hal9000]

It would be easy enough to build your own TBI setup just using a stock GM TBI throttle body and a megasquirt tuner. Probably can be done for a few hundred bucks and your time if you're so inclined.

 

[NJB71]

can I use a 94' 5.0 GT HO mustang, upper lower on my 302 crate?

 

[bmc69]

I went onto another Ford site, and basically a guy explained it as, good product, BUT system based on speed density, and said the EFI of choice for ease of use, maintaining, tuning is MAF.....

A common misconception. A lot of aftermarket EFI systems (most actually) are SD and have no tuning nor application limitations. The 'bad rep' that SD gets is from the factory EFI systems that use SD (they do not have the same tunability nor range of map to cover wilder cam setups or engines with boost..)

In fact, for really wild engine setups, the aftermarket SD systems with wide-band O2 cover far more territory than a factory MAF can without the obligatory trip(s) to the local dyno shop for chip tune..or spend a grand or so and buy your own Tweecer.

For stock to mild builds..MAF is indeed the better way to go if yr sticking with factory pieces and parts. More than that..there are the tuning trade-offs to consider..

 

[DirtDonk]

edit: Like speedy-fingers bmc says...

With the aftermarket, the Speed-Density vs MAF is not the same extreme opposites as it is with the Ford-specific setups.
While generally true that you want to lean to the MAF side of things with Ford retrofits, many of the super hi-po aftermarket setups are SD driven and are super tunable and work very well. Not sure about this particular product though, but the ones I'm more familiar with (like Accel DFI) are pretty slick and can run a TBI or MPFI with equal ease.
Now, maybe that other guy is still right NJB, as far as MAF being "better", but with non-Ford setups, like the one from RetroTek, they're VERY tunable and can handle any cam/header/intake/gearing/timing/anything changes you care to throw at them.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

can I use a 94' 5.0 GT HO mustang, upper lower on my 302 crate?

I would think that'd be a good combo. Not the highest HP, but probably one of the lowest profile versions around, along with the Cougar models.
Unless there's some compatibility issue I'm not aware of, they should work fine.
What side does the throttle body face? That can be an issue for some.

Paul

 

[NJB71]

$$$$$$$-always the issue, it looks like Powerinjection by retrotek, whole kit complete, retails $1900....(cheapest for aftermkt complete kits), I have found a complete 94' gt mustang set up, w/o harness(with all sensors) for $175...add harness $576, add PCM $100-200, add fuel lines, pumps, etc maybe $1200?.....if the 94 GT FI works why not?, ebay seller says never been used(hmmmm), looks shiny and new.....

 

[NJB71]

I would think that'd be a good combo. Not the highest HP, but probably one of the lowest profile versions around, along with the Cougar models.
Unless there's some compatibility issue I'm not aware of, they should work fine.
What side does the throttle body face? That can be an issue for some.

Paul

Paul,
From the pic the TB bends(30 degree radius)front passenger side. Issues?

Stephen

 

[bmc69]

$$$$$$$-always the issue, it looks like Powerinjection by retrotek, whole kit complete, retails $1900....(cheapest for aftermkt complete kits), QUOTE]

Well..you can get the Holley Commander 950 TBI system for a tad less than that..but a good point regardless. Seems like 2 grnd is sort of price 'floor' for the aftermarket EFI, with some costing well over 3 grand.

My current custom EFI project is a classic example..its some factory Ford stuff (TB and TPS, injectors, IAC valve and some other bits off a 4.6L) but with sensors, ECM and harness from Holley. Total cost?..not much shy of 2 grand. ;D

 

[Hal9000]

Seems like 2 grnd is sort of price 'floor' for the aftermarket EFI, with some costing well over 3 grand.

I mentioned it in my earlier post, but didn't push it. Those who aren't familiar, and are looking for an aftermarket system should look into Megasquirt. It's basically an open source, DIY version of the most popular aftermarket efi controllers. Depending on your level of skill and interest, you can go as far as buying a kit with components and unpopulated boards and built it from scratch, or buy completed units that need to be programmed, or buy programmed units and pre-made wiring harnesses. At the cheap end, prices start around the $200 mark plus whatever sensors/injectors you want to run.

MS can be programmed to work with any sensors and components you want to use from stock to exotic aftermarket stuff, and there is a HUGE community of enthusiasts to support the novice programmer and help them figure out what to do next. There are also a ton of one-off custom applications that users have come up with. You can control EDIS distributorless ignitions, variable valve timing, nitrous, water injection, etc etc, you can program from a laptop or PDA, and the unit can be programmed to auto tune once the basic setup is done. For the money I think it's about the most rewarding and versatile system available, although it isn't the easiest system by a long shot. The down side is that you will have to actually learn how efi works to be able to build and program the system (but the MS website has all the info you need).

I've got a full system I pieced together for the turbo mercedes/cosworth I'm building in my spare time. Scrounging the internet, I got all the components I need from the control unit to the injectors to the wideband O2 sensor, fuel rail, pressure regulators, fuel pump, etc etc for about $750.

 

[bmc69]

I agree that the Megasquirt system is by far the 'neatest thing since sliced bread' for custom EFI and very inexpensive to boot. A bit daunting for the novice, yes. Funny thing about that..I'm not only a controls engineer by trade..but one who actually owns a company that designs and builds exotic real-time control packages, primarily for naval applications. I think that is probably why I've never messed with the Megasquirt nor tried to adapt and program one of our own controllers to do engine management...too much 'busman's hoilday' involved. For my hobby I just want to buy and fly.;D

 

[jw0747]

can I use a 94' 5.0 GT HO mustang, upper lower on my 302 crate?

Yes, here's pic of mine

 

[NJB71]

nice....i think i might buy the set up and get all necessary parts for a feb build

 

[NicksTrix]

i'm doing one right now. one of my engine builders really liked it, so i figured i'd give it a try. far less work to package and wire than a Mass Flo set up.
it looks like a Demon carb from above.
we're at least a month away from starting the truck up, so sorry no more info.

 

[Devin]

I just ordered my 950 MPFI setup from Holley. Only to have Bax pm me yesterday and tell me to send it back. Apparently Holley is coming out with a brand new system soon that is supposed to be leaps and bounds better. I started up a line of communication with them and tried to get an estimated cost for this new system.....no luck. I am going to call a couple of Bax's contacts at Holley next week to get some more info. if I can.

 

[NJB71]

the retrotek simplicity is very appealing, all in $1500-2k on mixed and matched, or 1900 out of the box, and considering comments on this thread about speed density and its tuning ability, my engine is a crate 302, roller rocker, patriot heads, semi aggressive cam maybe I will save up for the retrotek....i would really like to install myself, besides I wouldnt have to pull off the manifold and i like the retro look, nickstrix let me know how it goes. I am likely not going to swap till jan/feb anyway

 

[Oatmeal]

My buddy has that setup on his big block powered '72 Chevy p/u and had some tuning issues........turns out it wasn't the system but a couple of nonrelated engine problems and now runs VERY well. The Retrotek guys (they installed it) were so concerned about it that they drove out to his house to dial it in (about 70 miles one way)........twice! That's pretty good customer service. My only concern would be how well the throttle body mounted ECM holds up to the heat coming off of the engine but, I've not read any negative comments on any of the other sites (Googled it) I've come across.---------Hans

 

[NJB71]

ty for feedback Oatmeal