Swapping BACK to a C4 from a Toploader

[86Horn_EB_77]

Back many years ago, when I was young and stupid, I pulled the FACTORY C4 out of my 77 and put in a Ford Toploader. I don't even know if it is wide or close ratio, but I've never liked the linkage or the hole I cut in the tunnel... so I'm about to buy a C4, rebuild it - and put it back the way it was.

I read the Toploader section - and I do remember I did a mod to the intermediate housing to make the top loader fit. What I don't remember is if I needed to also change out the intermediate shaft to the D20 - or did I just re-use the i-shaft from my C4? Does anyone know what parts I need to swap back? I'm hoping to re-use my intermediate housing & shaft, then I only need to find a new conv, flexplate, cooler, column linkage, kickdown cable and ???

I did all this back in 1990 - I don't know why I can't remember... THANKS

 

[broncnaz]

you can use your shaft but not the intermediate housing. The intermediate housing is a stock 3speed housing if I remember the mod it required was for the bearing.
The C4 has its own specail housing and output shaft for the bronco. Your best bet is to find a complete bronco C4 setup.

 

[bmc69]

Back many years ago, when I was young and stupid, I pulled the FACTORY C4 out of my 77 and put in a Ford Toploader. I don't even know if it is wide or close ratio, but I've never liked the linkage or the hole I cut in the tunnel... so I'm about to buy a C4, rebuild it - and put it back the way it was.

Since I'm old and stupid...I might be willing to trade you 1 for 1 just about everything you need for that swap. One complete tranny and t-case 'lump' for the other

Shipping would be a beeyatch, but......

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

Thanks everyone - can you guys check on whether the toploader uses the V8 or the I6 intermediate housing ? I seem to remember that the i-housing had an extra hole drilled in it - and some type of metal plug from Advance adapters so that the t-case shifter rods would clear ?

I have 2 options - buy just a C4 (from a Bronco) OR buy a complete C4 setup already bolted to a D20 (with all adapters, flexplate, Torq Conv, the D20, twin sticks, etc).

The complete setup is $350 more than the C4 alone - but if I don't have the right i-shaft and/or housing, then that's probably the way to go...

I will be selling the Toploader, but shipping from Texas to Maryland sounds real expensive... I have a local source for C4 parts - hopefully...

I don't even know if my toploader is the "wide ratio" version that is best for the Bronco - I will need to spin the shafts and check.

Jim

 

[Master Chief]

You two could always make a plan to meet at Duff's in Knoxville TN and have Suzy & Co help you with your parts selection...oh, and document your travels so the rest of us can be along with you in the virtual world.

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

OK - I battled the wasp nests - crawled under my Bronco, and measured the adapter housing behind the Toploader. It is about 8 3/4 inches long - that makes it a V8 adapter housing, right? There is a metal plug pressed into a hole on the trans end - I seem to remember that this is so a shifter rail from the top loader will have clearance. (so it's not for T-case shifter clearance as I remembered). The various swap articles also mention that the adapter needs to be machined to fit the rear bearing of the toploader, so I can only guess that that's been done too?

So - it seems like this a V8 adapter housing, and I suspect it is a Bronco manual 3 speed V8 adapter - but now the big question is, is it DIFFERENT than a C4 V8 adapter housing? I suspect that it is - or that it is now useless for a C4 because the bearing pocket has been machined to fit the Toploader bearing.

Just need an expert to confirm this theory, thanks.

Jim

 

[broncnaz]

The toploader used the V8 intermediate housing. 2 Mods were required 1 drilll a shift rod hole as you mentioned and enlarging the bbearing counter bore in the tailhousing for the larger bearing used on the 4sp. been years since I had mine done (late 70's) and now my toploader sits in the shed. next to a C4 and ZF The adapter housing between manual and a c4 tranny is completely different there is no way to use any manual tranny adapter on a c4 you must have a bronco C4 adapter.
Check the pass side of the tranny case for a small tag if its there you can get the code off it and find out what tranny you have quite easily. If not then the first gear ratio of the close ratio is 2.32 and the first gear for the wide ratio is 2.78

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

OK thanks

So now I know the C4 and V8 3 speed adapters are different. Is the spud shaft that "lives" inside the adapter housing also different? Nevertheless I'm probably going to just go buy the complete C4/D20 setup - and just sell my old D20 later.

Anybody in Texas need a top loader 4 speed? I do seem to remember looking for that tag before - and it was gone. I pulled the top cover off to make sure all the gears were OK - but I wasn't smart enough to count the first gear teeth back in 1990...

Thanks again broncnaz...

 

[broncnaz]

The input shafts are basically the same although I believe the automatic spud shaft may be slightly longer than the manual tranny shaft(could be the otherway around I cant remember) but it can still be used you just have to make sure it fits without binding up might have to shorten a little if it does no big deal there.
You can use your old D20 no problem you just need the C4 with a bronco D20 adapter and outputshaft. Also its not the first gear teeth you count you have to count 2nd gear teeth. probably easier just to count the revolutions the output shaft makes when the input shaft is turned once.

 

[jgrow]

c4

Man oh man...I'm saving up for the nv 3550 conversion and should be there in 8 weeks meaning I'd have the whole C4 setup for you. I just bought the Bronco and the previous owner put in the tranny not even a year ago. He drove it just a few times too. Anyways, if you get derailed for a couple of months, woudl love to start this conversation again in October.

 

[cbford]

The houseing is differnt and the shafts are different. And all the bearings are different. You will have to have the entire intermaediate assembly from a c4 to swap in a c4.

Count the teeth on second gear in the toploader. 28 teeth = close ratio. 31 teeth = wide ratio. That way you dont have to guess based on rotation.

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

Top Loader available

OK guys - I have my Top loader and the V8 manual adapter (modified for the top loader per the comments above) removed from the Bronco. Also have the shifter and fiberglass shifter cover.

The top loader is a close ratio iron case - from a 1969 Torino according to the tag on it.

I already bought a C4 and adapter and those are installed.

I'll post this stuff in the "for sale" section. It won't be fun to crate & ship it but I'll do it if someone wants to pay the shipping...

Thanks

Jim