synthetics

[griff]

I read the article on synthetics. I already switched on my differentials and will be soon on the transmissoin in my truck. The article got me thinking about putting synthetic in all my vehicles motors. If I went about 9000 miles between changes I think it would make up the price difference. Anybody going 9-12K miles between changes. How dirty does your oil get?

I change my oil every 3K miles and like the fact that I'm getting all the dirt and stuff out. if I have to change the filter every 3K miles even with the synthetic I will probably shick with the regular oil out of lazyness.

Sorry if this has been discussed many times. What's your opinion.

 

[TOFIC]

This question always raises a lot of opinions so - - -
Heres mine.

Synthetics all the way. better lubrication, better viscosity in a wider range of tempuratures, longer time between oil changes. I do mine twice a year whether I need to or not (truck is lucky if it gets 5k on it a year, my toy not my driver). My daily driver, 96 FORD pickup, gets the same treatment. It has a 1/4 million on it and runs like the day I bought it. I attribute this to the synthetics not the owners driving or maintenance style.

All oils are synthetic, tcase, auto, engine, axles, PS and even the brake fluid. The only thing that is not Synthetic is the antifreeze but that is not petroleum based so you can say it is a synthetic.

TOFIC

 

[76Broncofromhell]

You figure that all of your engine wear comes from all the crap floating in the oil. Synthetic does lubricate better but your engine would benefit more by changing regular oil more frequently. No matter what oil you have in there, there are still going to be pieces of metal, unburnt fuel, dirt, etc in there. If you have an engine that gets oil above 250 degrees frequently (which is rare outside of a racecar) then ignore above and run synthetic.

In a tranny or rear end, I would say synthetic all the way since there is a lot of heat, no oil pump, no filters. Just gears and loads. Trannies, transfercases and differentials also get ignored when it comes to oil.

 

[74bronc]

You figure that all of your engine wear comes from all the crap floating in the oil. Synthetic does lubricate better but your engine would benefit more by changing regular oil more frequently. No matter what oil you have in there, there are still going to be pieces of metal, unburnt fuel, dirt, etc in there. If you have an engine that gets oil above 250 degrees frequently (which is rare outside of a racecar) then ignore above and run synthetic.

In a tranny or rear end, I would say synthetic all the way since there is a lot of heat, no oil pump, no filters. Just gears and loads. Trannies, transfercases and differentials also get ignored when it comes to oil.

I agree with most of this except I don't believe you would be better off running dino oil and changing it more often. I happen to think you would be better off running synthetic so that you get all the additional benefits of synthetics and change your filter more often. Maybe filter changing wasn't stressed enough in the article. I always change the filter between synthetic oil changes. I change the oil (synthetic) once a year and the filter twice a year. My Bronco is almost a daily driver, but it doesn't get alot of annual miles because I drive other cars too. I use K&N Gold oil filters.

 

[TJK74]

The key is to changing your filter. I run Amsoil 5W-30 in my Tacoma comuter truck. The oil gets dropped every 30,000 miles but there is a filter change at every 7500 miles. To this day the truck has 173,000 on it and runs like a top.
This truck has only seen 5 oil changes since I purchased it new in 99
In the bronco it gets changed once a year since it doesn't see many miles

http://classicbroncos.com/syntheticoils.shtml

 

[griff]

If I can go 7500 beween filter changes it's worth a try to me. 7500 mile filter changes and 30000 mile oil changes? I think the new filter will keep all the crap out. Does anybody advise against this, or should I try it.

 

[mxpaz]

Well here is my .02. Synthetic does lubricate better. The time between oil changes is and should be determined by the way you drive, the type of driving you do and the MPG you get. What kills oil is the acid that is produced by the combustion process. The acid that is produced breaks down the detergent in your oil and that cannot be replaced by just changing your filter. The way I learned this was on my way home from Detroit on an airplane I was sitting next to a warranty Engineer that worked for Cummins. I was asking him all kinds of questions about diesel engines. He could have be a mass murderer for all I know.

 

[BC boy]

For diffs and trans 100% go with syn. I have mixed feeling about synthetic motor oil. I have heard that a motor with high miles will burn more synthetic oil than regular. I think with a new or rebuilt motor go ahead and use syn but on your older motor stick with what it's used to. There are numerous advantages to synthetic but I wouldn't wait much longer between changing oil. Also I can't see that changing the filter without changing the oil would help much. If your worried about the price don't use synthetic oil, there is no substitute for regular oil changes. My 50 cents.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

I don't run it in my motor because my oil gets thrashed after 2000 miles. You figure a motor with forged pistons gets a lot of blow-by when the thing is cold so the oil is going to get stuff in it that a filter can't touch.

 

[CrazyHorse72]

I heard that synthetics are more prone to leaking though....Is that true?

 

[BroncoJAK]

I heard that synthetics are more prone to leaking though....Is that true?

I don't know if is true or not, but mine started leaking from the rear seal day after I switched to synthetic. ?:?

 

[TOFIC]

I heard that synthetics are more prone to leaking though....Is that true?

on my soapbox again.

This is a popular fallacy. Synthetic oil is not any better or worse than standard oil. It is less forgiving than dino oil as far as leaking/poor fitting gaskets but this is so little it is not a factor.

I agree with the filter change scenario but as grizz says, i am one lazy SOB when it comes to oil changes that this was the factor that made me use synthetics.

One thing I will disagree with strongly is BCBoys statement about new or rebuilt engines. NEVER use synthetics for the breakin period of an engine. Several mechanics and 2 dealerships have told me this. This has to do with the ring seating or something similar and I was not paying much attention to the explanation. This statement came from sources I trust and believe in so I pass this on. The dealerships (Honda and Ford) both said use synthetics after about 30,000 kilometers (about 24000 miles) but were adamant about "breakin oil" for the first part of the vehicles life. Both dealerships stated that synthetics would not affect my warantee in any way.

My rant and rave on the subject.

TOFIC

 

[BC boy]

Thats good to know, I will tell people about not using syn to break in a motor. The reason I said that syn is better in new motors is because I had head that older motors burn way more syn oil than regular. I'm glad you pointed out my mistake. Sean

 

[74bronc]

If your machine shop still uses 19th century machining practices, don't use synthetic in a new motor. The fact of the matter is that machining practices have come a long way in the last 50 years and along with these new machining practices comes the need to let go of old ways of doing things. Fully sythetic motor oil is used as factory fill on BMW, Porsche, Corvette, Mercedes, Cadillac, Mitsubishi, Aston Martin, Viper.....need I go on? I switched to synthetic in my 351W around 1Kmiles. It burns absolutely no oil, zero, zip, nada between oil changes. It is also a fallacy to not change higher mileage engines over to synthetics. I switched my moms 1994 Impala SS over at 135K and my dad's BMW 540i over at 92K. No problems in either.

After about 4 years or so with synthetics, I have noticed that the engines do seep oil a little more than they used to. I by no means have any oil leaks, but I do notice that the seals seem to seep a bit more than times past.

 

[ASE-73]

For every 100 gallons of gasoline burned, the following is produced during the combustion process …

• 90-100 Gallons of Water
• 3-10 Gallons of Unburned Fuel
• 0.5 to 2.0 pounds of Sludge
• 0.25 to 1.0 pounds of Resin and Varnishes
• 1.0 to 5.0 pounds of Nitric and Sulfuric Acids
• 6.0 to 10 ounces of Insoluble Lead Salts
• 1.0 to 2.0 ounces of Hydrochloric and Hydrobromic Acids

While most of these agents escape in the exhaust and some vaporize when subjected to extended oil operating temperatures, a percentage does accumulate … and continues to accumulate in the oil until it is drained with the next oil change. While synthetics are superior in dealing with these byproducts, they do not not eliminate the need for reasonable oil change intervals. Oil Filters do not remove many of these byproducts from the oil given they are in solution.

I change conventional oil every 3,000 miles and synthetic every 4,000 miles.

BTW Castrol Syntec is not a true synthetic ... it is a modified conventional oil. Mobil sued Castrol over the use of the term "synthetic", but Castrol won on the broader definition.

 

[74bronc]

For every 100 gallons of gasoline burned, the following is produced during the combustion process …

• 90-100 Gallons of Water
• 3-10 Gallons of Unburned Fuel
• 0.5 to 2.0 pounds of Sludge
• 0.25 to 1.0 pounds of Resin and Varnishes
• 1.0 to 5.0 pounds of Nitric and Sulfuric Acids
• 6.0 to 10 ounces of Insoluble Lead Salts
• 1.0 to 2.0 ounces of Hydrochloric and Hydrobromic Acids

While most of these agents escape in the exhaust and some vaporize when subjected to extended oil operating temperatures, a percentage does accumulate … and continues to accumulate in the oil until it is drained with the next oil change. While synthetics are superior in dealing with these byproducts, they do not not eliminate the need for reasonable oil change intervals. Oil Filters do not remove many of these byproducts from the oil given they are in solution.

I change conventional oil every 3,000 miles and synthetic every 4,000 miles.

BTW Castrol Syntec is not a true synthetic ... it is a modified conventional oil. Mobil sued Castrol over the use of the term "synthetic", but Castrol won on the broader definition.

Is there a reliable source or scientific data for this information that you can post? I would like to investigate it for myself.

If this is true, how do you account for the fact that independent oil analysis companies (i.e. Blackstone Laboratories) on a regular basis recommend synthetics "suitable for continued service" after 12, 15, 18K miles. Surely these byproducts of combustion must accumulate to the point of making the oil "unsuitable for continued service" well before 12,15 or 18K miles is hit.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

 

[broncoswede61]

I plan to change the oil in the diffs,trans,and tranfer case on both my Bronco and my Explorer4x4 soon.What synthetics do you recomend?
Thanks

 

[ASE-73]

Is there a reliable source or scientific data for this information that you can post? I would like to investigate it for myself.

If this is true, how do you account for the fact that independent oil analysis companies (i.e. Blackstone Laboratories) on a regular basis recommend synthetics "suitable for continued service" after 12, 15, 18K miles. Surely these byproducts of combustion must accumulate to the point of making the oil "unsuitable for continued service" well before 12,15 or 18K miles is hit.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

This was a cut / paste from a BMW Tech Article that I saved but no longer have (new hard drive). I have searched the internet, but cannot find.

 

[utahmike]

this topic always gets huge respones... i pasted a question last year about which synth is the best. i have been using mobil 1 w/ mobil1 filters. i agree with others synthetic all the way but i always change mine twice a year regardless of miles, i have been thinking of going to 3 time a year, its a daily driver. And like was said oil filter changes are a must as with any oil reg or synth. filter every 3k. syth are for the most part proven to be better. Go with a full synth, like mobil 1. theres my .02 ;D