The Hard Talk, Wrangler (TJ or JK) over Bronco

[WheelHorse]

Being realistic and childish comments aside, when does it makes sense to steer a prospective owner towards something newer?

I've seen many a comments made about owner's children driving something much safer like a newer Wrangler with air bags, crumple zones and modern amenities.

In your mind, when would you draw the line and say, ya, even though I own one, you're probably better off in something newer and safer?

The youngest EB is now 38 years old with the oldest being 49...a lot of PO's have come and gone in most rigs lives by this time.

I've noticed a fair amount of prospective owners coming on and being on an adrenaline high with the thought of owning a classic SUV. Some are honest that they don't have a lick of mechanical skills and would have to pay someone to do all repairs/maintenance from lack of tools/knowledge/space. IS that a three strikes you're out policy?

Now I think the caveat would be their pockets are deep and money is of no concern, but I know that's not most owners.

I'd hate to see someone spend 12-15K on a rig that still needs another 3 in outside help to make it somewhat as reliable as a modern rig or several weekends ruined from a carb that has set for a few months that doesn't like ethanol over a newer injected vehicle that can still be serviced almost anywhere and is just about always ready to go with the rare exception of a dead battery.


I would go with the clarification of the oldest being a TJ and of course the newer JK Wrangler would be included in this discussion.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Just have the prospective Bronco owner read a few threads on this site. They'll either be turned on, or turn away.
You're right, it's sure not for everyone.
We bought ours new. Our kids all used it for a good part of it's life so it's here to stay barring a crash, fire, or theft. %)
Without this connection to the car, we might have parted with it and this silly hobby a long time ago. :-X
I don't think your average spectator understands what goes into a restore, refurbishment, or even just the maintenance needed on an old car. ?:?

 

[nathan_1970]

I feel as being a person leaning on the side of not having enough tools/space/knowledge I can give a different perspective. I do have some more know how about some aspects of these vehicles than others, like carbureted engines I am learning as I go, but I can do other tasks that may be more than others would like to do like replacing rotors and brakes, repacking the front hubs, working on wiring issues to preventative maintance (I know this is easy compared to what a lot of the people on the forum can do).

This being said, if someone has the understanding that these rigs are not modern and have to be treated as such and they have the will to learn, than this is a perfect hobby. Just because people don't currently have all the tools/knowhow doesn't mean they won't get there someday.

If someone wanted to buy one of these vehicles just for the cool factor and they don't care one lick about understanding anything about the vehicle and they don't have the money to keep it up, this would be where I would point them in a new direction.

 

[AxlesUp]

pretty simple:

if you want to work on your rig buy a bronco.

if you want to take it to a shop then buy a jeep.

if you want to beat it to death buy a jeep. broncos are too rare to destroy.


either rig with a full cage, good seats and a nice harness will be the safest thing on the road in a crash and for the bronco a collapsible steering shaft.

i personally believe that properly refurbished old cars are way more reliable than new ones. new cars are just too complicated to be reliable for very long.

 

[00gyrhed]

when I was young I drove a CJ 5 everyday for about 5 years. My bronco rides much better than it did but I would not even consider it as a daily driver at my age. For one thing I can do business on the cell phone in my bronco. I am sure the wranglers ride better and are quieter than a bronco. That alone my make someone decision easy.

 

[Digger556]

Good points.

I have a neighbor that wants a soft top 4WD as an extra play toy. His budget doesn't allow the purchase of a used Wrangler JK as a third vehicle. A used TJ would be the newest he could swing. But with nearly zero mechanical experience, even a TJ will quickly becomes an ownership challenge. The newest ones are nearly 10 years old and many were beat because they were a Jeep.

Classic vehicles are really for people with the know-how or deep pockets and a proper attitude.

My wife has a '67 Ford Fairlane, mostly original (36,000 miles) . It has been reliable, but is only driven ~200 miles/year maximum. With it's small leaks and old wiring, I would never trust it on a 500 mile road trip. (Although it would probably make it, I just won't rely on it.)

My Bronco project on the other hand has been designed from day 1 to do just that. It will be a daily driver, a weekend warrior, and a family transport. I have gutted the truck to the shell and re-designed the wiring, drivetrain, suspension, interior, bumpers, safety etc. I wanted a vehicle in the same class as a Jeep with modern construction, design and tuning without buying a Jeep. Fortunately I have both the engineering and fabrication background to pull that off. The other day I added up what I was spending in my time and calculated what I would charge if someone approached me to do a similar engineered build to modernize a Bronco. Even at the cheapest, low-ball ,bulk rate I would charge, I was up to $25,000 dollars in engineering and fab + another $25,000 in base vehicle and parts. That's assuming the body was in good shape.

I can see how owning one of these trucks would be strictly a hobby. I know I could not afford one if I had to pay someone else to do all the work.

 

[miikee73]

Mechanical abilities aside, the safety of the newer vehicles is a good thing. I probably drive more cautious in the Bronco that my other rides.

I feel for the people who buy them with stars in their eyes ,only to find out it was put together to flip for a fast buck. Something as simple as a seat track that was nut and bolted to the floor before the aux tank was installed can be costly for the guy that has to pay for repairs. No matter how deep your pockets are it's hard to find a shop that will put quality before profits. I'm not referring to the Bronco specific shops,just shops in general.

Some safety concerns,Lap Belts,steering shaft,aux tank outside frame,high center of gravity( I think I had mine up on 2 wheels the first night I owned it.)

That being said...I love driving mine,but it will never be my daily driver.

 

[collinbrewer]

I bought mine in parts about 8 years ago, and from day one, I built on it to drive it every day. I've now daily driven it for about 5 years, so I feel I have some credibility to comment.

The mechanical part is easy to make clear to a prospective owner. It will break, and with no warranty, you need deep pockets, or to be handy(and have time) with a wrench. It's hard to find a part that's not new or "gone through" on my Bronco but it still requires a wrench a few weekends a month to keep running smoothly. It will suck something out of your life, time or money... can you afford one of those?

"Daily Driver" is very loosely defined... can you drive it daily? Sure. Will it match the comfort, safety and dependability of a modern car.... not at all. It's basic, rough, squirrely, leaks and stinks.

The primary concern as a rig that's driven daily, is safety. I've also had mine on two wheels. I've driven in misty fog at night after my headlights shorted out. I've strong armed it coasting to the side of the road when it decided to just stop running. I've pushed it to safety on the highway, and I've locked up the brakes countless times. These things didn't happen while off roading or acting stupid, these all happened in a small town, driving in normal conditions. Stuff happens and there's no replacement for all of the many safety features that go into modern cars. This is the only reason I've ever considered swapping my Bronco for a "regular" car.

All that said, I bought my wife a Jeep JK Rubi and while everything inside me hates it... I must say, I'm envious of the dependability, drivability, comfort, and overall design of the car. It's pretty dang nice, and if I didn't have so much blood, sweat and tears in my Bronco, I may just drive the JK.

 

[miikee73]

I bought mine in parts about 8 years ago, and from day one, I built on it to drive it every day. I've now daily driven it for about 5 years, so I feel I have some credibility to comment.

The mechanical part is easy to make clear to a prospective owner. It will break, and with no warranty, you need deep pockets, or to be handy(and have time) with a wrench. It's hard to find a part that's not new or "gone through" on my Bronco but it still requires a wrench a few weekends a month to keep running smoothly. It will suck something out of your life, time or money... can you afford one of those?

"Daily Driver" is very loosely defined... can you drive it daily? Sure. Will it match the comfort, safety and dependability of a modern car.... not at all. It's basic, rough, squirrely, leaks and stinks.

The primary concern as a rig that's driven daily, is safety. I've also had mine on two wheels. I've driven in misty fog at night after my headlights shorted out. I've strong armed it coasting to the side of the road when it decided to just stop running. I've pushed it to safety on the highway, and I've locked up the brakes countless times. These things didn't happen while off roading or acting stupid, these all happened in a small town, driving in normal conditions. Stuff happens and there's no replacement for all of the many safety features that go into modern cars. This is the only reason I've ever considered swapping my Bronco for a "regular" car.

All that said, I bought my wife a Jeep JK Rubi and while everything inside me hates it... I must say, I'm envious of the dependability, drivability, comfort, and overall design of the car. It's pretty dang nice, and if I didn't have so much blood, sweat and tears in my Bronco, I may just drive the JK.

Well Said....

 

[Whoaa]

I had Bronco's when I was a kid, and back then they were cool...but not hard or expensive to buy, and stock mechanical parts were available at the local auto parts store.
Fast forward 25 years, and now they're harder to find, you don't see them often, and because they're flirting into the classic "collectors" market, the price has gone up -and will continue to go up as all collector/classic's do.

Classic Bronco's are not daily drivers....unless you think like me: I want to drive it everyday -that the weather is nice!

A classic Bronco is probably not a good choice for a young or inexpereicned driver, and not a good choice for a daily commuter car. Jeeps are a dime a dozen, or better yet steer them towards a modern little SUV like an Escape.

 

[73azbronco]

I have both, love both, but if I had to do it over, I'd stick with just a JK. I need two 4x4s to go wheeling with the boys and just have a backup for recovery options. The JK was the obvious backup vehicle which has exceeded all my expectations and morphed into my daily driver. My regret is Ford has been negligent on not marketing a small 4x4 option. The Raptor is cool, but cannot get on the trails I go on in AZ. For the money I've dropped into the Bronco, I could have had two TJ's or one nicely optioned JK.

Which one do I recommend? Both.

 

[sykanr0ng]

when I was young I drove a CJ 5 everyday for about 5 years. My bronco rides much better than it did but I would not even consider it as a daily driver at my age. For one thing I can do business on the cell phone in my bronco. I am sure the wranglers ride better and are quieter than a bronco. That alone my make someone decision easy.

Talking on the cell phone while driving?
So which one do you choose to drive when you are drunk?
Since that is almost as dangerous as driving while on the phone.
During the tests the drunk drivers didn't rear-end the car in front of them while some on the phone drivers did.

For the safety of other drivers on the road maybe you should drive your Bronco.

 

[TN1776]

I feel like if I had to, I could pretty much hop in my Bronco and drive it anywhere. I am however very cognizant of the fact that even with it basically being "new" mechanically, that venturing much beyond 100 miles from home that having some basic tools, etc is wise.

As has been said, it is an old vehicle and it will never be as safe or reliable as something new. I have test driven new JKs and they are damn nice, and very capable right out of the box. They are way more comfortable, and the safety features that are designed into them put them in a whole different league than a Bronco will ever be in. While we can improve the safety of an EB considerably, they were not designed with a cage or even a structurally sound roof. Cages on the market for them in my opinion add safety for a low speed rollover and a little beyond, but they are not designed for collision protection the way a JK is.

Owning a 45 year old vehicle will be expensive regardless, and having mechanical abilities is a big help. I have done more than a few roadside and trailside repairs in the years that I have owned it (even after rebuilding the whole vehicle).

You also must be patient - unlike a new vehicle, there will be parts that you simply cannot find locally and will have to order and wait for shipping. For that reason I would not consider daily driving my Bronco given the amount that I drive (15-20K miles per year).

It is a lot more work than a casual spectator might think.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Being realistic and childish comments aside, when does it makes sense to steer a prospective owner towards something newer?

I've seen many a comments made about owner's children driving something much safer like a newer Wrangler with air bags, crumple zones and modern amenities.

If someone can't work on their own rig, steer them towards the Wrangler. It has a 100K warranty. An old vehicle requires so much maintenance that it soon begins to snowball past a new vehicle.

I have both, love both, but if I had to do it over, I'd stick with just a JK. I need two 4x4s to go wheeling with the boys and just have a backup for recovery options. The JK was the obvious backup vehicle which has exceeded all my expectations and morphed into my daily driver. My regret is Ford has been negligent on not marketing a small 4x4 option. The Raptor is cool, but cannot get on the trails I go on in AZ. For the money I've dropped into the Bronco, I could have had two TJ's or one nicely optioned JK.

Which one do I recommend? Both.

Agree. My dad's '12 Rubicon is awesome. I love my EB, but his Wrangler is far more comfortable to drive and wheels awesome.

Talking on the cell phone while driving?
So which one do you choose to drive when you are drunk?
Since that is almost as dangerous as driving while on the phone.
During the tests the drunk drivers didn't rear-end the car in front of them while some on the phone drivers did.

For the safety of other drivers on the road maybe you should drive your Bronco.

For real? Get over yourself safety nazi. I taped my phone to my .45, that way I can brandish a firearm while talking on the phone - leaving my other hand free to hold my beer.

 

[hold24]

I just sold my 74 bronco and 14 aev jeep unlimited rubi... both beatiful rigs.. I find myself missing my bronco the most... As far as safety I real don't like my kids in the bronco. I don't feel there safe enough in the back seat.. I'm a big original fan so putting in a full cage takes away from the classic nostalgic feel of driving my classic . Ive lined up another 74 Ranger all original to park in my garage again... The problem with the jk there on every corner a dime a dozen...
They are very capable rigs and a lot safer but I feel nothing when I drive it. old classics will always need to be tinkered with that's what makes them so satisfying to drive...

 

[Germd]

It is a lot more work than a casual spectator might think.

This pretty much sums it up. I've always owned and enjoyed at least one "hobby" car for my whole life. It takes a lot of effort, patience, mechanical and fab skills and money - not necessarily in that order - to own and enjoy a "classic" vehicle. Some people are happy just to go out and admire the car sitting in the garage, but I have to drive a vehicle to truly enjoy it.
I too own both a '74 Bronco (cut, lifted, EFI motor, AOD trans) and a '05 TJ 2dr Rubicon. Right now I'm in Moab and the place is lousy with Jeeps for the Easter Jeep Weekend. However, I've learned that for the average Joe a TJ or JK is an incredibly capable 4WD vehicle and the aftermarket supplies everything you need to make one do everything but fly. Jeeps are as common as houseflies and can be had for very little cash.
That said - every time I drive my Bronco it just makes me smile. It makes other people smile to see one on the road. Im pretty sure it'll go most any place my Rubicon will go, but I don't need to hammer it just to prove the point. This week in Moab I saw a really nice EB Sport several times in town and then was very pleased to see him out wheeling it on the Hell's Revenge Trail. I gave him a big thumbs up!

 

[El Kabong]

Depends on the buyer. These are old trucks. Anything this old needs a certain amount of maintenance.

• Can he do his own work, & if so, will he find it enjoyable to do his own work?
• Is he willing & able to learn to do his own work, & if so, will he find it enjoyable to do his own work?
• Can he afford someone to do the work for him?
• Can he afford to buy one outright that has been rebuilt as new from a reputable builder?

If the answers are no no no no, then he should get something newer.

 

[Dave K.]

I have a 2006 Wrangler LJ Rubicon. I have always owned a Jeep--WW2, CJs, Scramblers, M38 and so on. I was opposed to the Wranglers until I bought this. Damn, I love this truck and I baby it like a Ferrari--it only has 28K miles on it. I own a couple of Broncos as well but really like the looks of the slightly longer unlimited. They are pricey though as they were only made for 3 years.... and the Rubicon version is sought after. The one time I took it mudding it was unstoppable.

 

[TN1776]

To add to my last post... and to borrow a term from my profession: How well can a prospective owner "manage expectations".

Don't go into it expecting new car comfort and reliability. Expect that sometimes you'll go out in the morning and find that the rig won't start for one reason or another. Last year for example, I only made it out wheeling once (to the Rubicon trail). A month or so later a buddy hit me up for a trip, and in the spur of the moment I decided to load up the rig and go. That morning I had a dead battery (no big deal) but more frustratingly; I found gear oil leaking onto a rear brake and tire. The culprit - a cracked "conversion" wheel bearing. So long story short I did not make that trip. I ended up spending $1500 on a brand new axle housing, shafts, brakes, and related parts. I could have fixed what was there, but I am not one to replace a known weak part with another that will fail in the same manner.
You have to expect stuff like that... if you are willing to deal with it, then the rewards are tremendous. I love driving mine because it is a classic, and I get tons of compliments and thumbs up while driving it. It is the first vehicle I have ever totally rebuilt - it has taught me more than I had ever imagined.

 

[broncnaz]

If you have to ask then they should probably drive a jeep.
Realistically it depends on your opinion of the person your steering to drive/buy one or the other. Kinda boils down to there demeaner and there needs and mindset. Of course the newer vehicle is going to be safer(wranglers still have the worst small 4wd safety rating) and more driveable and comfortable, nicer features ect. I kinda hesitate to say more reliable but for some it will be.
In the end its still a shortwheel based 4wd so theres lots of vehicles that are way safer than it or a bronco.

Personally I think you should steer them to drive anything other than a bronco. That leave more broncos availible for me.
My bronco has been the most relieable vehicle Ive ever owned. It was pretty much daily driven from new to 2003 and only had to be towed once because I thought I could make the last 20 miles on a bad axle bearing. Didnt make it.
I have no issues driving my bronco anywhere anytime but its not a vehicle for anyone. In todays world there are to many distractions for people and most cant handle them much less them and a bronco.