transmission/starter problems with new engine

[rt22]

I am having some problems with the transmission and starter after installing my new engine. Let me give you a little background on what I have: a new 351W from Ford. The C-4 transmission was rebuilt about 6 months ago but only has about 100 miles on it.
The new motor runs fine but the transmission will not shift into gear. I ran it through all the gears but it won't "kick" into gear. The fluid level seems to be okay and we hooked everything back up the way it was before. Does anybody have any idea as to what I may be doing wrong?
Also, after getting the transmission back (from the shop) I noticed that sometimes the starter was slow to repond when starting the engine. After we pulled the engine we noticed the starter had been chewed up near the tip of it (a groove was worn into the area). After installing the new engine we started the motor and it didn't take long before the new starter failed and the same groove was created. It looks like the starter dosen't line up. Do you think the people that rebuilt the transmission didn't shim something properly? I had a couple of issues with the shop that did the work so it wouldn't suprise me if something wasn't done right. They did tell me that they had to get another bellhousing because they dropped and cracked the original one. The transmission is under warranty but I want to make sure it is something they caused before I take it to them. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Dave]

The starters are different for the auto and manual transmission. The ring gear is spaced differently on the flex plate vs the fly wheel. It might not be disenguaging all the way or only part of the gear is enguaging. Make sure you have the correct one. No idea on the shift issue.

 

[Pa PITT]

Being an old parts man I sold lots of overhaul kits for C4 in the day...C4 had to be clean in the valve body to make them shift correctly ....

 

[broncnaz]

Did you have to force the transmission and engine togehter? If so the troque converter may not have been correctly enguaged with the pump and you may have pushed in the pump and messed it up not your tranny shops fault. As was said manual and auto starters are different you've got to make sure you have the right one.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Did you have to force the transmission and engine togehter? If so the troque converter may not have been correctly enguaged with the pump and you may have pushed in the pump and messed it up not your tranny shops fault. As was said manual and auto starters are different you've got to make sure you have the right one.

That is what I was thinking as well.

If the torque convertor isn't fully seated into the front pump with mating it to the engine the front pump gets destroyed. Only fault is the person mating the 2 parts together.

The starter mates with the flexplate that is bolted tot he crank. Transmission shimming does not influence the position of the flexplate. So I would not blame the tranny builder for that either. Now if the torque convertor isn't correctly installed, that could force the flexplate forward toward the starter more then it should...

 

[rt22]

Thanks for the replies. We did have a tough time getting the transmission and engine to come together. We eventually got them close and were able to close the gap completely by using the bolts (bellhousing to engine). We are going to take a look at it later and hopefully figure it out. Thanks

 

[Bronco73]

Thanks for the replies. We did have a tough time getting the transmission and engine to come together. We eventually got them close and were able to close the gap completely by using the bolts (bellhousing to engine). We are going to take a look at it later and hopefully figure it out. Thanks

pray your front pump is not broken now. my guess it is.

 

[rt22]

yeah, I am praying right now...I do not want to have to pull it apart again.

 

[rt22]

Is there a way to check whether the pump is working properly?

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Doing some internet detective work about something i am not 100% on, I have a few questions.

If they broke your original bellhousing, and they replaced, and then all of a sudden the starter doesnt engage properly, is it possible you have the wrong bell housing?

like I said I dont know this well enough, but that is were I would look first. What happen with the torque converter possibly a result of this too?

 

[Bronco73]

The bell housing is a good point. i thinnk there is two or three different C4 bell housings and they each have a different starter location but if you used the orginal block plate then you would know if it matched or not. The starter wouldn't bolt up at all with the wrong block plate.

keep in mind that if the failed to seat the torque convertor correctly then the flywheel is also being forced towards the back of the block which may be enough to flex it out of position. Were you able to spin the torque convertor by hand with the trans bolted to the back of the motor? I should say can you grab one of the torque convertor studs and wiggle from side to side it easily. If not then it is not seated correctly and you have a good chance of damaging the front pump.

 

[rt22]

Thanks for the posts. The bellhousing appears to be the same one and the transmission worked properly (before the new engine) besides the starter issue I talked about earlier. The shop had the original torque converter overhauled--which we were able to verify after we pulled the engine. I also had a loud tapping from the starter after the initial startup of the new engine, but it stopped after running the engine for a while. It appears that once the divit (I talked about earlier)is created in the starter, it no longer causes an interference.
I talked with my friend that helped with the installation and he said it does seem that we could have damaged the pump with all the work it took to get the engine in the truck. He also wanted to know if there was a way to test whether the pump is functioning properly without having to pull the whole transmission. Any other ideas before we start tearing stuff apart?

 

[rt22]

I found an old post on pulling the cooling line from the radiator in order to test the pump-I will try that after work today. My question is: If the pump is damaged, can I just replace the pump or is the transmission now destroyed? Can you replace the pump without opening the whole transmission? Is the TC also going to be ruined? Thanks

 

[Bronco73]

The longer you run the engine the more likely you will cause more damage. I would not start and or run the engine any more until you know for sure the TC is not bound up. You need to loosen all the TC nuts and see if you can move the TC studs back and fourth on the flywheel holes. If you can not move them around by hand then thej TC is bound up.

The more you run this the more you have metal to metal and this will produce metal shavings which may or may not find there way into the trans and or TC itself.

to replace the pump the bell has to come off or it makes it easier and the front of the trans has to be pulled. The pump plates crack under the load from the TC binding up against them.

You've already mentioned having trouble mating the engine and trans together so you know there may be a problem. verify that TC is not binding and then check for fluid flow from the trans line.

 

[rt22]

So it looks like the problem is the front pump. We pulled the cooling line off the radiator and there was no fluid moving through the line....go figure. Does anyone know where I can find a good price on a replacement pump?

 

[Bronco73]

call the trans shop that rebuilt the trans. I would guess you're taking it in to have it replaced anyways so they will order the new parts for you and may have some used stuff. I would ask them to flush ecery thing as well.

 

[rt22]

We finally pulled the transmission and it turns out that the pump was the problem. I'm picking up a new one today and will hopefully have it on soon. I was reviewing some old posts and was wondering about the propper way to bolt the engine and transmission together along with the torque converter. When we initially installed the engine, we had the TQ bolted to the flexplate and not the transmission. From reading old posts, it looks like you are supposed to set the TQ inside the bellhousing and then bolt it to the flexplate. Did we probably do more damage to the transmission and TQ by doing it this way? I'm also wondering about whether I should go ahead and replace the TQ before bolting everything back together? Thanks

 

[rt22]

Also, if I replace the TQ, should I go ahead and use the 11.5 inch as opposed to the 10.5 inch that I currently have? I have a new flywheel from fomoco that I bought but could not use because it is for an 11.5 inch TQ. Is there a way to tell whether I have the bigger bellhousing or the smaller one (it's a 75) and will this be an issue? Thanks

 

[Bronco73]

If you found metal shavings then I would flush and or replace the TQ. Since the pump was not pumping fluid the rest of the trans should be free of shavings and the TC may be fine for the same reason.

When I owned a mustang II I found out the hard way there were different TC and the bell had to match and I use to know how to tell them apart. been to long and I can't recall how. I would stay with the 10.5.

I should have asked how you installed the TC from the begining. I never thought about some one bolting it to the flywheel and then installing it. That explains the difficulty you had mating the engine and trans.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I will suggest going to the 11.5 torque convertor and flexplate.
That 10.5 in a Bronco is an odd beast. You will be kicking yourself later if the flexplate goes south and you have a new torque convertor you can no longer use. the 11.5 will fit a Bronco just fine.