welder questions

[unclebap]

Bronco needs some welding Door skins and such as well some projects around the house.
Will a 110 volt mig welder like one of the lincolns work or do I have to go to a 220 volt unit? concerned about cost.
Need your help in making a choice.
Thanks.

 

[scsm76]

The 110v welders work well for body work and clean medal up to 1/4", they can go up to 3/8" w flux core wire but that is pushing there limits.

 

[jimmyhat]

***Hook gas up to them mcuh cleaner results...
But miller has a 175 mig that is 220 and it rocks!
I use stick on mine and the proper rod and i get great results

 

[BFPD630]

yup, the cost of a 220v is signifcant enough that I would recommend a 110 for what it sounds like you will be doing. My theory was that if I am going to be welding something bigger than my 110v can handle, it is probably critical enough that I should have a professional (with a 220v) do it.

 

[jbbies]

I know a guy thats been restoring cars for 8 years with a lincoln 110v mig. I was a little shocked at first and he said "well think about it im not working on heavy machinery" I think a 110 would be great I welded with his and it actually was easier to move around and welded very nice.

 

[z70what]

if you're a pretty good welder... i'd go w/ a 220v... but if you're just starting out.. a 110v will do pretty much everything you will be wanting to do... my 110 is great, but i am getting ready to build a custome gate for a buddy of mine, and also build my spare tire carrier/bumper in the near future... and i would much rather upgrade to a 220v...

Luke

 

[deltarat]

Can you really weld 1/4 with gas and 3/8 with flux with a 110 unit?

 

[scsm76]

Yes, but anything large, 1/4" or bigger requires multiple passes. 3/16" is about the largest in a single pass.

 

[bmc69]

Can you really weld 1/4 with gas and 3/8 with flux with a 110 unit?

From a multi-process certified welder with almost 30 years of expereince..NO. By that, I do not mean that you can't do that kind of welding at all...and I see it all the time. What I mean is that the actual penetration in to the parent metal is miniscule for thicker materials like 1/4" and above and what 'looks' like a decent weld on the surface does not pass muster structurally and would never pass a valid AWS or ASTM inspection. So, for anything that must be truly structurally sound (and assuming, of course, that whatever it is to be welded is designed properly to start with), the actual AWS limit for a 135A (110V) wire feeder is 3/16" steel.

That does still cover a LOT of things that will be typically be welded and fabbed on an EB however. I just cringe when I see people claiming that they 'succesfully' welded up their 3/8" and 1/2" suspension parts or winch bumper with 'multiple-passes' from an undersized welder.

One thing the wired handler is ggreat for is pre-assembly..tacking pieces of a complex assembly together before starting the final welding process. So even if you are building something 'big'..you can get it all fitted up and tacked together - a HD winch bumbper for example - and then have a buddy or local shop do the critical structural welds.

 

[SWFLABRONCO]

I've got a Millermatic 135, and Lincoln Power Mig 255. I can't remember the last time I used the Lincoln since getting the Miller. Most of my recent Bronco work has included light frame patches and body work, and the Miller works wicked nice. I use the steel gas mix, and stay away from flux core though. To answer your question, yes! The 110-135 units are great for what your doing, and will surprise you when you tackle thicker metal.

 

[bronko69er]

A good baseline rule of thumb (in a welding book I have) for steels is 1 amp per .001 in of thickness. So 1/4" would require 250 amps for a full penetration single pass with no joint bevels. For aluminum, double the required amperage (heat runs away from the weld faster and you can't build up the heat without more amperage).
This rule is a little overkill in practice but I think it is aimed at a 100% duty cycle. Meaning if you want to weld 1/4 non-stop with no breaks for cooling, you would need a 250 amp machine. I think most would agree that the 140 amp 110v machines would not make a full pen closed gap butt weld on 1/4" steel, much less do it continuously.
Shielding gas also plays a role in the heat transfer equation. If you use a less dense gas like helium, more heat will stay in the weld (more common when welding aluminum). If you use a denser gas like CO2, more heat will be transferd from the weld into the gas, thus requiring more amperage to maintain the puddle.

bmc69- Correct me if I'm wrong or not in the ballpark.

 

[bmc69]

bmc69- Correct me if I'm wrong or not in the ballpark.

Au contrare mon frer!..right on the money. And you raised a good point that relates to 'how big' can ya go with a 135A/110V machine (or any machine that is under what the guidelines call for). Where you can manage to reduce the local thermal mass and thickness of heavier material in certain welds by bevels, back-cuts and gaps..you can obtain a satisfactory weld with lower-than-specified current levels..

Most good welders will tell you..it's all in the prep work..get that Lincoln or AWS handbook out on joint design..and use that grinder.;D

BTW..Somewhere in my archives I have the detailed AWS cert. test results and magnified section pictures from what looked at first glance like real pretty 3-pass 'T' weld done on 1/4-" steel parts with a 135A machine. The cross-section inspection clearly shows zero penetration..the weld looked great..but had no strength. Zippy.

 

[deltarat]

An old welder at home use to call them Hollywood welds on some new equipment, looks pretty, but won't hold s***.
If I step up to a 175 want could I expect to weld?
I have a ac-dc reverse stick machine for the heavy stuff and I have burned probably over a ton of rods with them, but have never used a wire machine. The experience of a certified welder of many years is greatly apreciated.

 

[RajinCajun]

One note on the small welder, I have an older Miller 130 and I recently upgraded to the MM 251(AWESOME BY THE WAY ) My 130 started getting weak and after talking to the guys at my welding supply place I realized my running it on 4 all the time actually shortened the life of it.. It did last 5+ years so I got my $$ out of it. If you are planning to get anything over the 130-140 miller or lincoln, I say just spend the extra hundred or two and get the MM210. The lincoln is a great 130-140 amp welder and will work great for occasional thick stuff, but if bumpers etc for yourself and buddies is in your future, I say get the 210.. I rarely run my 251 over 1/4 its capacity and love it... Just my $.02

 

[bmc69]

An old welder at home use to call them Hollywood welds on some new equipment, looks pretty, but won't hold s***.
If I step up to a 175 want could I expect to weld?
I have a ac-dc reverse stick machine for the heavy stuff and I have burned probably over a ton of rods with them, but have never used a wire machine. The experience of a certified welder of many years is greatly apreciated.

Frankly there is little if anything a 175 cannot handle in a rig build. I use our Esab 250 for about everything* and seldom ever need to turn it up more than 3/4 power for ANYTHING related to truck fab work. It only sees its max power levels for things like making wing (stabilizer) rods for well drilling rigs..where yr welding REAL thick chit on to REAL thick chit.;D

* I'd be hating life without my little Hobart Handler 110V machine for body work though..

 

[deltarat]

Will the larger 220 machines turn down low and do body work as good as the smaller 110 units or would I be better off with a 130-140 and do anything else with the stick machine? I want it mostly for body, sheet metal work, conduit,ect.

 

[bmc69]

Of course..but you also have to change the wire spool and the tip to deal with body sheet metal and such. And then change back for heavier stuff. Not that big a deal for a garage shop I guess but we maintain different machines for different jobs so we don't have the wasted time and wasted wire.

There is not a darned thing wrong with having the small MIG and a decent stick welder to do the heavier stuff..especially if you are talking about a DC stick welder (good ole 7018 DCR jet rod is great stuff..and cheap) We still keep a couple of those 'dinosaurs' around.;D .(Miller Idealarc 350 and a mobile HobartChampion 16). Heck, you can buy a used DC stick machine pretty darned cheap these days.

 

[RajinCajun]

True.. I missed the part about you having a stick machine. I vote getting the 110v unit for body work, I still use my 110 for body stuff..

 

[deltarat]

Thanks for the help guys. I did know about having to change wire to go heavier. I would probably wire the small stuff and before I changed the wire I would probably just stick the thicker.
A question on the styles. Are the ones that only have like 4 heat settings ok or do I pay a extra 100 bucks for one with infinate settings?

 

[bmc69]

My expereince is that the 4-click 110V MIG is fine. After all, yr already splitting 'fine hairs' by only adjusting over the 135A power rangge with the four settings. The rest can be tweeked with yr wire speed..which IS infinitely adjustable.