what is the between manual vs auto starter?

[Gas Pig]

I know there is a difference between the manual starter vs auto starter but I haven’t had the chance to see them side by side. Also the stock bronco auto starter would be the same for an AOD?

Thanks Jeff

 

[DirtDonk]

The difference is primarily in the length of the snout and the reach of the gear.
I believe the gears themselves are also slightly different widths.

Bolt pattern is the same.

And yes, I “think” the AOD and its derivatives use the same starter.
But only most of the time.

 

[Gas Pig]

The difference is primarily in the length of the snout and the reach of the gear.
I believe the gears themselves are also slightly different widths.

Bolt pattern is the same.

And yes, I “think” the AOD and its derivatives use the same starter.
But only most of the time.

Yep, I ran up to autozone and they pulled an automatic starter and I compared to to the one I had they were slightly different. I’m guessing it was from a manual transmission. I bought the new one and it works perfectly!

Thanks Jeff

 

[thegreatjustino]

Here's more than you ever wanted to know

 

[nvrstuk]

Gear reduction ministarters yypically hangup in the flexplate unless the engine starts... solved my question on another post from the last 4 days

 

[Steve83]

Gear reduction ministarters yypically hangup in the flecplate...

Only if they're miswired, with a jumper from the hot lug to the start terminal. If they're wired correctly, they never hang.

(click this text)

 

[nvrstuk]

There's NO power to them when "hanging" in my description OR in the pdf file description posted earlier as they are wired correctly.

This is strictly a pwr off, bendix spring cannot physically retract the drive gear until the load is removed situation.

 

[DirtDonk]

And we are not talking about hanging up in normal use. Correct?
This is just while testing a motor that’s not running I believe. Correct?
Otherwise the starter is working and disengaging as expected under normal conditions.
Also, correct?

 

[nvrstuk]

Correct, correct & correct.
100%!

 

[Steve83]

So what you're talking about is NOT typical use of a starter, and NOT relevant to a PMGR starter's reliability in any way. When they're in typical use (on millions of vehicles across the planet, including early Broncos), they typically work as-designed including typically retracting when not powered.

 

[nvrstuk]

So what you're talking about is NOT typical use of a starter, and NOT relevant to a PMGR starter's reliability in any way. When they're in typical use (on millions of vehicles across the planet, including early Broncos), they typically work as-designed including typically retracting when not powered.

Another positive response-thanks!
(Where is that sarcasm emoji again?)

So typically they retract and this is HOW the starter typically operates IF the engine typically doesn't fire or start but since you haven't seen the dozens of responses & feedback about typical and non-typical situations that weren't posted that I received- then you might have been enlightened about non-typical operation if you were open to it. Where did I ever say they weren't reliable??

I posted up about them not disengaging 100% of the time as a helpful response to others that might be:

1- doing similar work on a test stand some day

2- trying to diagnose similar non-characteristic starter symptoms in an engine that isn't starting or firing

3- trying to maybe share some factual information about the characteristics of the PMGR starters to possibly save others who might be following this thread some confusion and expense.


Steve83- your attitude appears that if something isn't "typically" used for an OE application then we shouldn't share or post about the experience. What a shame that would be.

What you're saying is if your engine doesn't start and you end up sliding underneath to look at possibly an oil leak or to tighten another bolt and you notice the gear drive is still engaged in the flexplate it isn't typical since millions of these starters are never WITNESSED to have this occur... THIS is why I posted up - to possibly try to help someone down the road.


For starters, how many people on this forum don't use stock replacement parts on their rigs and sometimes need help diagnosing symptoms? This POST is about that.

I'd say an overwhelming majority of forum members do AND would be open to any typical or non-typical symptoms of any part/procedure that might be helpful to them or a buddy in the future.

Below is a pic of the pdf file from a Bronco vendor about the "non-typical" issue you don't agree with.

 

[Steve83]

Another positive response-thanks!

Yes, I'm positive about my response. But trying to change the subject from what YOU posted (originally) is just a distraction. Stay on-topic.

Where did I ever say they weren't reliable??

Where I quoted. Didn't you see it above? You ORIGINALLY said (before you edited it):

Gear reduction ministarters yypically hangup in the flecplate...

When you say that their TYPICAL operation is a fault, that indicates that you think they're TYPICALLY UNRELIABLE to work right.

I posted up about them not disengaging 100% of the time...

No, you didn't (originally) say anything about a percent - you said (or tried to say) "typically". That's a LONG way from 100%. For one result to be "typical", it has to happen a lot more than 50% of the time. And obviously, PMGR starters work correctly nearly every time. So any faulty operation (not disengaging or otherwise) is NOT "typical".

your attitude appears that if something isn't "typically" used for an OE application...

This has nothing to do with my attitude - it's about what YOU said (originally) about what mini (PMGR) starters typically do. And using a starter to actually start an engine IS an OE application. Using one to crank on an engine that DOESN'T run is not a typical use, so whatever the starter does isn't "typical".

...we shouldn't share or post about the experience.

Where did I say not to post? %) You said your experience was that PMGR starters typically don't work right. I disagreed. That's NOTHING LIKE saying you shouldn't post. It's a DISCUSSION forum for early Broncos, and we're discussing something related to eBs

 

[nvrstuk]

Pretty much what I expected & it took so long... typical fb response.
Oh, and when starting this engine in this non- typical application today it releases when there isn't any load for all the reasons I stated.

 

[Dude 713]

Now I am really confused but that is typical for me

 

[nvrstuk]

hahahaha.... yeah, me too.

I'm going to move on as all I wanted to do was let people know they might get some weird "non-typical" things happening and since the starter works perfect now in another "non-typical" application then people might not have to worry if the same thing might happen to them in the future-whether it's in the OE "typical" application or in any other.