What is your lift tie rod track-bar combo,With F150 knuckles, TRO related.

[1970excursion]

Fixing a few problems without creating new ones.

What I have:
Heavily worn 2.5 lift, may only be a 1.5" leveling kit.
F150 knuckles, drop pitman arm, 1.5 in drop track bar bracket.

I want to go to a new 3.5" lift.
With an adjustable, or cut to size track bar.


The F150 knuckles seem to have dropped the tie-rod/draglink by over an inch (maybe I am way off)

Any of the F150 knuckle guys with a 3.5" lift have to go to a TRO to make your BKO steering work right?

Plus most people say not to use a drop trac bar bracket with a TRO,
Do the F150 knuckles have the same clearance problems?

 

[OX1]

Fixing a few problems without creating new ones.

What I have:
Heavily worn 2.5 lift, may only be a 1.5" leveling kit.
F150 knuckles, drop pitman arm, 1.5 in drop track bar bracket.

I want to go to a new 3.5" lift.
With an adjustable, or cut to size track bar.


The F150 knuckles seem to have dropped the tie-rod/draglink by over an inch (maybe I am way off)

Any of the F150 knuckle guys with a 3.5" lift have to go to a TRO to make your BKO steering work right?

Plus most people say not to use a drop trac bar bracket with a TRO,
Do the F150 knuckles have the same clearance problems?

F150 knuckles do drop tie rods about and inch, but also angle in for no (or at least much better) tire clearance problems. I kept my 77 knuckles jsut due to the F150 knuckle drop. Did have to add 3/8 spacer on stock FSB 90's alum wheels though.

 

[Mark]

I have F150 knuckles, 3 1/2" suspension lift, I utilize an axle riser for the trac bar mount, and a TRO...
you can see pics here.. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194917
although I have since changed out my radius arms..

 

[broncodriver99]

I only have a 2.5" lift but run the BB/F150 knuckles. I run a WH adjustable trac bar with no drop bracket or riser and the cut down F150 linkage with an adjustable drag link and stock pitman arm. My trac bar to drag link angle are nearly identical.

I would guess that you could ditch the drop trac bar and just run the riser and TRO and be pretty close to perfect. Would probably need a stock pitman though.

 

[DirtDonk]

...Plus most people say not to use a drop trac bar bracket with a TRO. Do the F150 knuckles have the same clearance problems?

I think what you mean is that most say not to use a dropped pitman arm with a TRO. Or maybe to use a riser instead of a drop bracket.
You may still very well have to use a drop or riser bracket for the track bar.
Or not...

You can take most stuff as gospel with EB's. Gospel in a general theory sort of way that is. ;D
In other words, no matter how many people have done exactly what you want, you still might have to put all the answers together, read between the lines and still make up your own results. All because EBiDaYRMV (Every Bronco is Different and Your Results May Vary).

So while you might get extremely close (which is often good enough too) by using someone else's results that did the same thing you want, little things like: Who's pitman arm did they use? Who's drop bracket did they use? Who's tie-rod and draglink did they use? And just how long is their draglink anyway.
Oh, and that doesn't include what steering box did they convert to, if different from stock. And where on the frame is it mounted.
When you start narrowing it down to one or two examples then, you might want to get those little details added to the info so you know for sure where they were coming from. And if it would apply to your rig.

So while you can take everything under advisement, the ultimate results may just have to start with you experimenting and not welding anything on permanently, or reverse-tapering any holes, until you try it on for size. So to speak.
That's kind of what I did. Before I had any examples to shoot for.

When I did my 3.5" lift with F150 knuckles, I realized right away that the initial testing showed things weren't going to line up like I wanted. I ended up buying 3 different brand pitman arms, 3 different brand drop brackets (before risers), and shortened an F150 steering link setup to make it all work together in a TRU arrangement.
Took back everything I didn't use and have never looked back. Mine was working fantastically (when I was driving it that is) and driving super steady down the highway at any speed I cared to take it to. No appreciable bumpsteer or other foibles.
That's likely all going to change shortly when I put in my 4x4x2 box.

Sorry to be such a long-winded nervous nelly, but when it comes to absolutes and EB's, they're often mutually exclusive and you sometimes just have to punt.
As said before... "Your results may vary."

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and I would almost always expect to use an adjustable trackbar at this point too.
Easy for me to say of course, as I sell them. But in addition to being able to fine-tune the axle assembly location, a great side benefit of the adjustables is that you can twist the top eye to more accurately align with your upper mount.
No matter how careful (or not) the designers are, a slight variation in the angle of the lower mount from original is going to skew your upper mount. Sometimes to the point that it's very difficult to get the bolt in, and is putting undue forces into the bushings even when sitting still.
The amount of lift, the offset of the C-bushings, the location/type of radius arms, and any other modifications or even variations from the factory, will effect this relationship.

If you're not sure, or just don't want to spend the money up front, you can always wait and try to install your original bar. If it works, great, you're set. If not though, you can then get an adjustable bar to dial in the alignment of stuff.

And while you're at it, if this is your '70 and you're not doing any other caster mods, such as dropped radius arm brackets or rotating the steering yokes, just automatically expect to install 7° C-bushings. Doesn't matter what the book says. Unless you've had it aligned and know for a fact that your caster angles are good, just go big on the bushings.

Paul

 

[Rox Crusher]

I have a WH 3.5" lift with 78/79 knuckles and TRO linkages.

I was able to use my stock steering arm and since the stock trac bar bracket on a 77 is longer than other model years.......I didn't have to use axle riser bracket on the other end.

Maybe I'm the luckiest EB guy in the world but my axle is centered nicely and the trac bar and drag link are within 1 degree of each other so no bump steer to contend with.

 

[Past_Miner]

I have a WH 3.5" lift on a '77 full width. I run the stock pitman arm with the Chevy 1 ton TRO. I opted to put a drop bracket on the frame AND a slight riser bracket on the axle for my track bar. I custom built the track bar with a urethane bushing on the frame end and a large heim joint on the axle end that threads directly into the DOM tubing. The threaded heim gives me about 1" of adjustment.

I used the riser and drop bracket to get my drag link and track bar exactly parallel. I missed by about 1 degree but for me it paid off as I never, ever have a bump steer issue. I haven't suffered any ill effects fronm the drop bracket either. It does not limit my suspension travel.

I will apologize for the crappy pic. I thought I had a better one but I can't find it. You can't see the riser bracket on the axle but it is there.

 

[Doyle]

Mine has 79 knuckles with 3.5" springs, one ton TRO, stock pitman, riser on axle housing, and adjustable track bar. Everything is centered up and parallel. No bump steer and tracks great on road.

 

[ransil]

i will throw this out there ..

doesn't parallel only count if the drag link and trac bar are the same length ??

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes and no. And nothing is absolute on an EB except for the fact that nothing is absolute! Or is that just "few things" are absolute?
While having both the same length AND as close to the same pivot plane as each other is important in a geometrical sort of way, keeping them as close to parallel as possible no matter what does seem to keep at least most of it's benefits.

Just as you can often get away with a very slight misalignment even when the bars are the same length, the differing length issues seem to allow the same thing. At least in one direction.
In my case a slightly steeper angle on the shorter bar (trackbar in most cases) has not caused any issues. The shorter bar travels through a "quicker" arc(?) so I'm guessing they cross over a parallel point fairly often during normal up and down movement of the suspension. Here again though, the difference is very slight. At a quick glance most would think they were parallel.

Just a total guess of course, but it's based on actual practice, rather than actual geometry. Better if some of the geometry experts fill in the blanks and make the theory fit the reality, rather than the other way 'round.;D

Paul

 

[broncnaz]

2.5in lift adjustable trac bar and WH 3 way adjustable tie rod. With a TRO swap done.

In my case when I did the knuckle swap I noticed a small amount of bump steer so I did the TRO and no more bump steer. A TRO will move the tierod up about 3in so usually no drop pitman arm needed with lifts 3.5in or lower.
Currently the trac bar and drag link are a little miss algined on mine but no bumpsteer. To me yes the lenghts to make a differance. Just as much as the angles.

 

[1970excursion]

2.5in lift adjustable trac bar and WH 3 way adjustable tie rod. With a TRO swap done.

In my case when I did the knuckle swap I noticed a small amount of bump steer so I did the TRO and no more bump steer. A TRO will move the tierod up about 3in so usually no drop pitman arm needed with lifts 3.5in or lower.
Currently the trac bar and drag link are a little miss algined on mine but no bumpsteer. To me yes the lenghts to make a differance. Just as much as the angles.

Is the WH 3 way tie rod, a stock style, or the big bronco type?

 

[DirtDonk]

That would be a near-stock style. Hence the "3-way adjustable" bit. http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_Drag_Link_3way_Adjustable_6675yr
Most of the rods are still larger than stock though. Or, as in the case of the tie-rod centerlink itself, MUCH larger.
An F150 based setup is a nice stout setup, but would typically not allow for the third adjuster.

Advantages to this style are the draglink remains closer in length to the trackbar, and you don't have to reverse-ream the tie-rod for a TRO setup.
Since the main centerlink is an independent part, you leave it oriented stock, and simply rotate the rod ends. You ream the knuckles only in that case.

Paul

 

[broncnaz]

I used the stock style because I had bought it first and just did the standard tierod mounting location but I found I had devloped a small amount of bump steer. It was a very small amount of bumpsteer and I could have lived with it but I decided to fix it and did the TRO swap reamed the knuckles and used BC broncos bushings to fit the tie rod.
I also got lucky with my TRO swap as I didnt have any interferance with the lower trac bar bolt like some people have.