won't start unless jumper solenoid - Painless harness

[OsideDave]

Took the bronco to Cruise Night last night and did fine. (New Painless harness in earlier this year, new FiTech too) Went to leave and nothing - zero from the starter. Key on primes up FiTech, good lights, etc. So I play around with C4 column shifter thinking its neutral safety switch issue, even check connections underneath, still nothing. Decide to jumper batt to S connection on solenoid with key on - she starts right up. Get home and still the same thing.

Check out some things this morning and decide it must be solenoid, get a new BWD starter solenoid from CARQUEST and still same issue.

So I try to jumper neutral safety switch on Painless harness- this where it gets scary. Bronco has push button starter with key as well, hopefully theft deterrent.

I disconnect Painless connection to C4 neutral safety switch, there are 4 wires, #919 with 2 male to female connectors so I figured plugging them together would do the trick - NO I got a runaway starter upon key on! key off didn't stop it either! Disconnected the harness and it finally stopped cranking, little scary there. So I calm down and figure ok I will just jumper the 2 #919 wires together and bypass the neutral safety switch that way, key on and same scenario!

I am stumped. Left the neutral safety unplugged for now. Checked the ignition connections and look good, checked the pushbutton starter button and even jumpered it, nothing

 

[Attac]

Oside
As I recall there are 2 wires for neutral safety and 2 for reverse lights. Let me get my book out and see. Also I would go ahead and pm eric on here since he designed the harness
Chuck

 

[Attac]

As I recall I think mine did something similar and it was a ground that had come loose. Electric does weird stuff

 

[OsideDave]

Thanks, hadn't thought about grounds yet. Good idea

 

[Attac]

Also are you sure all of those wires say 919. Wire 957 is the same exact markings but it is supposed to go to ignition module. I think I remember I had one set of 919 that could be used on a steering column type neutral safety and another set that would go to trans if you were using the one on the shifter linkage arm.
I'm not really helping here...

 

[DirtDonk]

...So I play around with C4 column shifter thinking its neutral safety switch issue, even check connections underneath, still nothing.

Good course of action. Did you check the connector where the NSS meets the Painless harness? If you pull the connector apart and jumper the two Red w/blue wires together, this will isolate the NSS from the loop and let you know if that's the problem.
(never mind. I see you did later down the list...)

Decide to jumper batt to S connection on solenoid with key on - she starts right up. Get home and still the same thing.

Says that all the other ignition power sources are fine, and power is simply not coming from the ignition switch to the starter relay via the Red w/blue "S" wire.

Check out some things this morning and decide it must be solenoid, get a new BWD starter solenoid from CARQUEST and still same issue.

Can't be the relay/solenoid. You proved that when you jumpered it and got it to work. Once you did that, you proved that it still worked, but that you were not getting the energizing power over the S wire.

So I try to jumper neutral safety switch on Painless harness- this where it gets scary. Bronco has push button starter with key as well, hopefully theft deterrent.
I disconnect Painless connection to C4 neutral safety switch, there are 4 wires, #919 with 2 male to female connectors so I figured plugging them together would do the trick - NO I got a runaway starter upon key on! key off didn't stop it either! Disconnected the harness and it finally stopped cranking, little scary there. So I calm down and figure ok I will just jumper the 2 #919 wires together and bypass the neutral safety switch that way, key on and same scenario!

What color are the 919 wires? (sorry, don't have my Painless manual open%)) If they're the Red w/blue then you've got power from there to the relay, but are now showing that your ignition setup is defective.
BUT(!) you may have also proven that your new starter relay is buggered right out of the box.

So that answer comes from what you disconnected to get it to stop spinning the starter? Did you pull the Red w/blue S wire and it stopped? Then the starter relay is fine and it's still a problem with your ignition switch.
If you pulled the S-wire off and it still cranked the starter, then your new relay is buggered. Very common, and I would put the old one back on.

But it's weird that you went from a no start at all, to a starts as soon as the key is turned issue!
Again, might be due to you dealing with multiple issues now. Find out where the power is coming from and why.

I am stumped. Left the neutral safety unplugged for now.

That's fine, and probably what I would do. BUT, and this is ultra important, you are now personally responsible (but aren't we always anyway I say?) for making sure you never experiment with it unless it's in Park!
Up to you now....

And frankly, here's another test that might get you off the hook, safety-wise.
Plug the NSS back to the harness and see if the problem of not starting comes back. If it does, then you've narrowed at least one issue down to the NSS or it's adjustment.
If it still cranks as soon as you turn the key, even when you're in Park, then you know for a fact that there is something wrong with the NSS. So either way, you might find out you have to mess with the NSS some more.

Checked the ignition connections and look good, checked the pushbutton starter button and even jumpered it, nothing

What do you mean by "nothing" though?
If you jumpered the switch and did not get any action at the starter, then your wiring is suspect. A connector broken, or wire compromised. Or?

At least it's narrowed down to between the ignition switch/push button thingy and the starter relay.
But with a little dose of "might be the neutral safety switch" thrown in for good measure.

Oh, and what type of starter are you running? Newer PMGR starter by the way? How is it's solenoid wired to the fender mounted relay?

Good luck. Keep isolating...

Paul

 

[ransil]

I alway make a NSS jumper plug when I install harnesses.

If you are cranking with however you jumpered the NSS turn on the key and it should start if the issue is just with the start circuit, if run & start is AFU you are walking., then remove your jumper and drive home, probably a little late now.

 

[OsideDave]

Thanks Guys, I will take a look at this hopefully this week after work. Will report back on what I find

 

[OsideDave]

Update - looks like it is the neutral safety switch, did the adjustment with drill bit and it started normally but only in neutral, won't start in park.