WTB a welder~ what should I be looking at?

[needabronco]

I love my Miller 211, it'll weld 1/4" on 110V, like said you can plug it into 220 if you want to. It's also small and fits under my work bench when not in use. I've welded everything a lot of body panels with it, done frame work and welded a few sets of radius arms with it, never had an issue.

Whatevery you do, be cautious about buying Home Depot/Lowes welders, even the name brand units are scaled down and are NOT the same welders. Add the fact that your local welding store won't service it either makes them not desireable for my use.

When you get your welder watch some utube videos and buy some scrap fenders and pieces from a body shop to practice on. It's not hard to pick up but takes some practice to get decent looking consistent welds.

 

[707Bronk]

For a good versatile welder for light duty applications (ie: 1/4" or less base material), you could get away with a smaller 120V machine capable of up to 130/140 amps machine.

I have a Miller XMT CC machine that I use for Tig welding as well as stick welding thick materials (3/16" all the way up to +1"), and was looking for a mig welder that I could do smaller jobs with.

I chose the hobart 140, and it has been a great little machine. Under $600 shipped to your door. Its a 120V unit that can run the Solid core, Dual Shield (machine not "hot" enough to run dual shield well), or Inner Shield wire.

But really, everyone has their brand, but so long as you stick to a popular brand you won't be dissapointed. Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Snap-On, Hobart are the machines that I have used in the past and would recommend ANY of them. There are some other brands that I'm sure are great machines (I hear Eastwood has good machines), but I've never welded with them, so I don't have any experience with them.

If I wanted the next step up, I would be looking at the millermatics, they are really sweet machines that I love to run. But, My next step is going to be to get a Miller CC/CV multiprocess machine, and keep the hobart for smaller jobs.

 

[Glass Pony]

I chose the hobart 140, and it has been a great little machine. Under $600 shipped to your door. Its a 120V unit that can run the Solid core, Dual Shield (limited to 0.035 wire size though), or Inner Shield wire.

I have a Hobart 140 also.
Makes really nice welds with the shielding gas.
Has a lot of Miller parts in it .

 

[DanHall]

many or at least a few of you either did not read my original post or simply skimmed through it.

I give what I want to spend, and I mentioned duty cycle. like most everyone I want the best bang for my buck, with the most universal welder I can find. Honestly most of the time it is going to sit in the shop and collect dust. I am a hobbyist, not a professional metal fabricator. I work with small 1/8th inch rod and brakeline along with brass, and light weight steel (lighter than body panels) however I would also like to be able to patch up a few holes in the trail truck, and do whatever else may need "fixing".

L.R.

For the small stuff you're looking at a 110V unit will suffice. If you think you'll want to get into heavier material you'll probably want a 220V unit.

Keep an eye on Craigslist if you have some time. I found a Millermatic 175 (small end of the 220V line) that will do what you're looking for and more for $450 with a 80cf bottle, cart, auto helmet, and a few other accessories in darn near new condition. It has done a lot of body work for me as well as bumpers, rock skis, etc.

 

[707Bronk]

I will also say a lot of times a weld can "look" good, but lack adequate penetration. This is especially true for mig welding, and especially for beginners.

As part of practice welding, its a good idea to do a little clip test now and then to make sure that the weld bead you think "looks" good actually "is" good.

Solid core wire does not like to get deep penetration especially for fillet T's and even more so for out of position.

Dual shield and inner shield get FAR better penetration, but Inner Shield is hot, messy and not pretty. Dual shield penetrates very well and creates very pretty welds, BUT it requires a lot more Voltage to run and thus a lot of the smaller 120V units won't run it well, and a lot more simply can't run it. I love to run Dual Shield, and had a hard time going with a 120V unit that restricted its usage, but I can take the 120V unit pretty much anyplace and use it, plus it was going to be my light duty welder. The 220 units have the power to run dual shield.

For a beginner, I would recommend practicing running beads on a flat plate until you can lay them down straight and overlapping slightly. Once you can lay down beads on a flat plate, then start doing some joints, laps, fillets, butts. Since its practice, just keep stacking welds on the root pass.

Then, once you get that down and feel comfortable. Cut some coupons, clean them really good, and test out the structural integrity of what you think is a good weld. Run a filet-T root, then either weld the bottom to a table or put it in a vice. Then take a BFH and try and bent the vertical leg of the T back over the root pass. A weld can look really good, but be structually poor. Destructive testing can teach you a lot about your skills.

 

[LoneRanger]

dual shield, and inner shield ? is that the type of wire? I thought you use the different gasses for a shield?

I need a welding dictionary- lol

L.R.

 

[LoneRanger]

I found a Hobart 187 that appears to be in great shape for 625.00 thats a 220v unit, seems like a fair price?

http://ocala4sale.com/classifieds/14797293397.php

 

[lowbush]

brakeline along with brass

You are going to have a hard time doing Brass as well as Stainless with anything other than a TIG that being said some of the Chinese TIG machines are not that bad for a hobbyist that is only using them from time to time. While what BMC is saying about TIG being a little more to learn I actually think it is a great welder for someone who is only going to weld here and there. It's more versital, it creates a stronger weld and you can get the 3 in 1 machines that have a plasma cutter for only a few dollars more than a TIG only machine. The downsides are that it's far slower than MIG, it's a little harder to learn and the machines are more expensive. That being said, my first TIG/Plasma machine was a 220 China jobbie that I paid $400 for and it worked/works great. For what you want one for it would be perfect. Honestly get a cheap 220 china mart special, learn on it, and you can always sell it for 75% of what you paid for it and upgrade if you ever outgrow it. If you bid the 3-in-1 50 amp TIG welders on ebay and are patient you can get one of the cheap 220 TIG's for under $350. They will do everything but aluminum. Well technically they will do aluminum too, but it's a process to do DC only aluminum.


If you are set on a MIG machine then you will have to get silicon bronze wire to weld Brass but it's not as easy or straight forward as TIG welding brass and bronze.

For Stainless brake stuff you are going to have to run a tri-mix if you want to MIG it, the three bottles alone are going to cost you more than the cheap china jobbie TIG which only needs argon for everything.

Honestly if you see metals other than mild steel in your future TIG is a better bet, if you plan of doing Aluminum you need a square wave AC TIG (double the price of DC TIG machines) or you have to get a bottle of helium to DC TIG Aluminum.

 

[707Bronk]

For mig welding you have solid core, and two types of flux core wires.

Solid core - no flux in wire, and uses shielding gas (Argon/CO2 mix or 100% CO2). This is what most mig welders use, especially for automotive purposes. But it does have limitations that you should be aware of...like lack of penetration. But lack of penetration can be mitigated with fitment, setup and technique.

Inner Shield - A flux core wire where flux is inside wire, no shielding gas. Hot, Messy, Hot Excellent Penetration, oh and it's Hot as hell to run. The slag is a biotch to hammer off. Best for outdoor use.

Dual Shield - Another flux core wire, but it uses a shielding gas as well. Clean (no spatter), Pretty, Excellent Penetration. A good bead using dual shield and the slag will pop or peel off almost entirely on its own.

Inner Shield and Dual Shield fluxes are not the same. The Dual Shield wire has fewer flux components, and uses the gas for shielding. Inner Shield actually has a flux component intended to create a gassless shield.

Many of the smaller 120V units say they can run fluxcore wire, and some even come with a roll of it, but it is usually almost always an Innershield Fluxcore wire, not a dual shield wire.

Fluxcore wires burn hotter and in order to run them the machines require higher voltage output which usually means a higher voltage input. The flux in flux core wires produces an aggressive arc and is what allows for deep penetration as well as increased weld deposition (ie, more metal being layed down per pass = fewer passes and less heat buildup). Both types o fvluxcore wires create a slag over the weld, and both make for super strong weld.

Most anything can be done with the standard solid core wires, and if you did need to ensure deep penetration you can go with a smaller diamter wire and use 100% CO2 shielding gas.

Welding is a fairly complex process, and I'd pick up a handbook or two, or better yet, check to see if your local community college has a welding program. A lot of them do, they're cheap, and they're usually night classes.

Probably more than you needed to know...

And like lowbrush said, mig welding small, thin delicate pieces of metal probably is better suited for TIG welding. But, if you are just tacking things together where its more artsy than functional, then a mig welder might work Ok. This is where taking a welding course from a community college pays off - you get to learn about and use different welding processes.

 

[LoneRanger]

^ excellent post!

 

[LoneRanger]

I found a Hobart 187 that appears to be in great shape for 625.00 thats a 220v unit, seems like a fair price?

http://ocala4sale.com/classifieds/14797293397.php

I tracked down a post on some forum where this welder was on sale at a tractor farm supply for 550- I guess this one is priced a bit steep (though I have to think it is negotiable)

L.R.

 

[707Bronk]

I found a Hobart 187 that appears to be in great shape for 625.00 thats a 220v unit, seems like a fair price?

http://ocala4sale.com/classifieds/14797293397.php

That would be a good machine. Though, might not do so well with your scale model stuff. Your best bet for welding intricate stuff with dissimilar metals would be a TIG welder. You definately wouldn't be limited welding on your bronco though, especially if you ran Dual Shield.

I did learn something while shopping for my Hobart (made by Miller) though, some of the older ones have plastic wire drive/feeder components. The newer Hobarts have steel wire drive/feeder components. I didn't hear about many problems with the plastic drive setups, but something to look closely at if you decide to take a look at it.

 

[bronconut73]

I found a Hobart 187 that appears to be in great shape for 625.00 thats a 220v unit, seems like a fair price?

http://ocala4sale.com/classifieds/14797293397.php

Not bad. Having said that I paid $649.00 at Northern Tool for the same unit a couple years ago. Alas they no longer make the 187 but you sometimes find them on ebay new still in the box for about $600.00 bucks.
After better understanding what your looking for I would say you should by two semi-powerful 110 volt units. It sucks to have to switch out wire for every different metal your welding, so having a dedicated rig for brass, or stainless, or aluminum is pretty cool.
Infact I'd say two "used" 110 volt units would be good for you. Probably cost the same as one new 220 volt unit.
BTW all the major brands Hobart, Esab, Lincoln, Miller with Miller probably being the best have a great 110 volt unit that is about 140 amp.

 

[707Bronk]

I tracked down a post on some forum where this welder was on sale at a tractor farm supply for 550- I guess this one is priced a bit steep (though I have to think it is negotiable)

L.R.

That would be a good price for a new 187. I bought the Hobart 140 from tractor supply for $489 w/ free shipping.

I think Hobart replaced the 187's with the 190's, so don't expect to find many 187's unless someone is trying to clear out old inventory, or on ebay.

 

[LoneRanger]

millermatic 180 on ebay is 875 with free shipping and a 10% rebate through Miller- makes it around 788 out the door-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miller-Mill...41008281996?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item20d4bfa18c
L.R.

 

[bronconut73]

I work in the construction industry as an inspector. I have done so for over 25 years. Every job site I walk onto all I see is Miller blue. And I'm talking about every contractor with any welding. All blue.
I work with Coastal Steel regularly. Again nothing but blue. Atlantic Erection, Schmidt, Johnson Bros, etc.....all Miller blue. They must know something Bro.

 

[Steve83]

You'll never regret buying a Miller slightly more versatile than you think you need. The 211 is a helluva machine, and although its spool gun is VERY light-duty, I got a surprisingly good result on my first attempt. I burned up 3 tips, but I got the job done & learned a lot.

 

[joel]

For the small scale model stuff, wouldn't it be better to just do it with a torch? Maybe someone already mentioned this (I didn't thoroughly read every post), but for small stuff that doesn't need all that much strength, couldn't you solder, braze or gas weld it?

 

[ugly74]

Whatever you, dont get cheap and buy an off brand for a machine thats "comparable" to a known brand, but for a lot less. You really do get what ya pay for. Even for just a hobbyist, a cheap machine will frustrate the hell out of ya, and you'll begin to dread using it.
I had a campbell hausfeld 120 volt that seemed ok. It did what I asked for the most part...but the liner was crap, and the drive mechanism is a POS. nothing like to trying to run a bead when the line is binding and/or slipping!

I ended up kicking the crap out of it and throwing it in the scrap metal pile

 

[DuctTape]

Whatever you, dont get cheap and buy an off brand for a machine thats "comparable" to a known brand, but for a lot less. You really do get what ya pay for. Even for just a hobbyist, a cheap machine will frustrate the hell out of ya, and you'll begin to dread using it.
I had a campbell hausfeld 120 volt that seemed ok. It did what I asked for the most part...but the liner was crap, and the drive mechanism is a POS. nothing like to trying to run a bead when the line is binding and/or slipping!

I ended up kicking the crap out of it and throwing it in the scrap metal pile

What ugly said. And buy a 220v version. I bought a nice miller 110v and very quickly outgrew it, and I'm just a hobbyist. Take a look at the dual mode 110/220 versions from miller or Hobart.

Ps. Anyone want to do a trade 220v for 110v plus cash?