302 Puking Water

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

I'm baffled right now. My '76 bronco is constantly "puking" water today. I "burped" the motor by letting it idle with the radiator cap off after filling it up with water yesterday.It ran fine yesterday put about 40-50 miles cruising around. Temp was between 180 and 190 the whole time.

I get in it today and decide to make the block; roughly one mile. I get into it a little, but too not much. Temp gauge pegs 230, overflow bottle is slam full and radiator is empty. Pull into a family friends house and fill up back up with water. Ease back to house and radiator empty again when I get back to the house and by the time I make it in it pegs 230 again. I run the water hose over the radiator to cool it down. Rinse and repeat a few times; still running hot and overflow reservoir still full.

302 with c4; motor and tranny rebuilt professionally. Motor bored over ~.25-30 something like that.

Mild Comp camshaft.

Stock radiator

Radiator hoses are not leaking.

Has a fan shroud.

New water pump and 190 thermostat.

Seems to only "pukes" when I get into the throttle. If i ease into it doesn't do it as much.

If I take the radiator cap off and give it heavy throttle under the hood from the carb it starts puking...

Bad thermostat? Sticking maybe?

Radiator Cap? it has 12-16lb cap

Radiator stopped up?

Transmission cooling?

Any ideas?

KyleQ · Mar 21, 2013

What is your timing at? All of a sudden did this or fresh build?

Bronco Junkie · Mar 21, 2013

Wow, that is strange. It almost seems like you have a blown head gasket...but you should be seeing that out of the exhaust. How is the exhaust?

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

I guess it would be considered a fresh build. I took it the machine shop and he put a rebuild kit in it and bored the cylinders slightly. I'm not a mechanic by any means but know enough to get myself out of trouble.

The motor itself has less than ~150 miles on it.
I BELIEVE the motor is set 10 degrees off top dead center. I could be wrong... My good friend who went to Nashville Auto Diesel School helped me get it going and shot it with the timing light. He said it was right..

It seemed to run fine until today. I was at the parts house yesterday and ran into a fellow church member who owns a mechanic shop been around for years. His nothing but a ford man and does good work. He said it was out of time and twisted the distributor clockwise a little bit. The motor sounded a little better after that. However I came straight home after that. about 2 miles and parked it and it sat until today. Could that be it?

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

Bronco Junkie,

Exhaust seems fine.%) It has true duels with flowmaster 50 series muffler. No fluids coming out of exhaust pipes. There is a small cloud of white smoke when I'm initially cranking the engine and it fires off. Goes right away and is only there for a slight second. Smells like old gas. which is a probably right because the gas tank had some old gas in it when I put the engine back in. I tried to clean it out best i could by pouring in few gallons and sloshing around, pour out and repeat a few times.

should mention, doesn't appear to be any water in the oil either...
Also I had another post a week or so ago about it running hot without the fan shroud. It seemed to help out once it came in and I installed it. Here's the link to the my previous post. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221040

AZ73 · Mar 21, 2013

Do you have the proper water pump? is it too low volume or reverse flow? That or bad thermostat.

jperry1290 · Mar 21, 2013

Had a similar problem and it turned out my thermostat needed a small hole drilled in it.

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

I'm assuming I have the correct water pump. I could be wrong. I went to O'Rileys and took the old one with me. I got a mid-grade water pump. It was around $80-90. I dont remember the brand but it had the same outlets and everything as the old one. How do i know if it is correct flow?

Also when i take the radiator cap off, i can't see water "flowing" through the radiator. just kinda sits there until the temp hits over 190 on the gauge. I always thought this meant the thermostat was kicking in.Then it doesn't flow, just kinda goes up and down vertically. (if that makes any sense).

The thermostat was from Car Quest (It was late one afternoon and didnt have time to run to the big city). They have a rep around here for parts failing. Try a new thermostat from a different parts house first???

sp71eb · Mar 21, 2013

I would try these things in this order. Replace or test your radiator cap its usually just a good idea to just replace it. Make sure its sealing on your radiator. Then pressure test your coolant system to see if its leaking. If your coolant isn't pressurizing it isn't flowing or cooling properly. You can usually get a tester as a loner from parts stores. Check for a bad or backwards thermostat, most housings won't let you put them in backwards but its always possible. Most of the time its a water side issue before a head gasket issue. I also agree its a good idea to check into the water pump and confirm its the correct rotation.

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

Ill try that first thing in the morning. The engine will build pressure around 190-200 degree running temp. Assuming this means the thermostat kicking in. Top hose going into intake is firm after short drives. It just seems like it always starts puking and filling up the overflow around that temp and pressure of the hose after you give it heavy throttle.

Ill get a new radiator cap in the morning and see about getting a water pump tester to borrow.

I'm still confused about how I know if the water pump is the correct flow or volume.. Google is giving me numerous different ratings, etc..

Broncobowsher · Mar 21, 2013

From the description the head gasket sounds bad. But there are various degrees of bad. If you have a compressor and can do a leak down test, really just pressurize the cylinder with shop air pressure and watch the water level in the radiator with the cap off. If you get a cylinder that you pressureize and the water level starts to rise, you have a cylinder that is bleeding pressure into the cooling system. It can be minor enough that you won't get water into the cylinder and exhaust but enough to push much higher cylinder pressure into the cooling system. The gas bubble then pushes the water out of the radiator. Engine runs low on water and then runs hot.

If you got 150 miles on it to start with, the waterpump and thermostat are close enough to being correct. Pressure test the cylinders. A pressure check of the cooling system probably won't show results as the pressures are lower in the cooling system then what you can do with shop pressure in a cylinder which is closer to what the head gasket sees when running.

I forgot the part I was writing about...
I have (twice) had a head gasket fail to the point of bleeding compression into the cooling system. But no coolant into the exhaust or the oil. Just a high pressure gas leak into the cooling system.

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

Broncobowsher said:
From the description the head gasket sounds bad. But there are various degrees of bad. If you have a compressor and can do a leak down test, really just pressurize the cylinder with shop air pressure and watch the water level in the radiator with the cap off. If you get a cylinder that you pressureize and the water level starts to rise, you have a cylinder that is bleeding pressure into the cooling system. It can be minor enough that you won't get water into the cylinder and exhaust but enough to push much higher cylinder pressure into the cooling system. The gas bubble then pushes the water out of the radiator. Engine runs low on water and then runs hot.

If you got 150 miles on it to start with, the waterpump and thermostat are close enough to being correct. Pressure test the cylinders. A pressure check of the cooling system probably won't show results as the pressures are lower in the cooling system then what you can do with shop pressure in a cylinder which is closer to what the head gasket sees when running.

OH CRAP, Im scared now... I'm a newby to all this heavy mechanical stuff like that. exactly how do i do it? Take a spark plug out and shoot into the cylinder with shop air?

I called my mechanic buddy but he's offshore right now and couldn't talk long. He mentioned something about the head gaskets being on backwards. how do i know if they are? something about part of the gasket being visible on the block or something???

AZ73 · Mar 21, 2013

Trojan said:
OH CRAP, Im scared now... I'm a newby to all this heavy mechanical stuff like that. exactly how do i do it? Take a spark plug out and shoot into the cylinder with shop air?

I called my mechanic buddy but he's offshore right now and couldn't talk long. He mentioned something about the head gaskets being on backwards. how do i know if they are? something about part of the gasket being visible on the block or something???

Well that is a possibility. That's a well known issue with Fords that they're not reversible, and putting them on backwards will prevent some water flow. When you said professionally built I just assumed they didn't screw that up.

You can read about it here:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/48-for...277178-reversed-head-gaskets-overheating.html

Here's some pictures:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/302-head-gasket-installation-161338.html

Although I don't know how to check with the heads on. I think you'll probably have to take them off.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think you'd be able to get a reverse flow on there without realizing it. The hose output is reversed and you'd not be able to get it to work on the stock radiator so scratch that.

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/early_bronco_water_pumps

Revelation · Mar 21, 2013

Is the oil milky?

If the oil is fine I would think it would be a stuck Thermostat because the day before it ran fine without overheating. If it were a head gasket you would see water in the exhaust or oil. Besides getting that hot after just a mile or so screams no water flow. Also check the belts, if one came off then the water pump is not pumping.

Dad always said to check the simple things first, to many times I have see guys go straight to the big deal and come to find out it was something very simple.

Trojan · Mar 21, 2013

Ill try to post a video to youtube tomorrow if i dont get called into work so everyone can see exactly what it is doing. kinda hard to explain typing it out without seeing it. especially since I'm a newby to this kind of heavy duty mechanicing!

I'll double check the fan belt, and pick up a new radiator cap and thermostat for sure though.

PaveBronco · Mar 22, 2013

Looks like this is a good first big issue for you, get and memorize a Chilterns and Haynes manuals. Could be a numbers of things, like someone said, simple stuff first. If you have a 190 thermostat and its working correctly assuming everything else is also hooked up right, temp should not go up to 230. So is it pukeing because the temp is at 230 or is the temp getting to 230 causing the pukeing. Pull the thermostat, one to make sure it didn’t somehow get put upside-down, it can be done if ur not paying attention, and second run it without the thermostat. If it’s still pukeing, maybe you have the wrong water pump, could be a reverse rotation one, or just defective, all remanned in China, I assume. After that, could deff be a bad head gasket. Bad head gaskets don’t always leak into the cylinders...changing them is not hard, follow the book.

Trojan · Mar 22, 2013

Ok, I went to the parts house today and got a new radiator cap and thermostat. Drained the entire coolant system. Filled back up with water. Put the new radiator cap on.Did not put in the new thermostat. Belts are connected properly. Fired it up let it warm up. Top hose going into radiator was firm to squeeze, temp around 180-190 and made the block.

It started running like crap and engine would die when I was not in the throttle. Went approximately 1 mile. Thermostat bumped 230 then came down to around 210 when i got up to 45-50 mph. Turned around and came back home. took the radiator cap off and puked everywhere. cooled down radiator with water hose. Drained radiator again and filled up with Anti-freeze this time. Exhaust now has white smoke coming out. Sweet smell coming from exhaust now. It was not doing that yesterday.... Im scared I blew the head gasket.............. DAMN IT!!!!!

Here is a couple videos:

Radiator Puking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXnJojcNu38

Exhaust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ZzExC__b0

I6bronco · Mar 22, 2013

Well I have had a similar problem with my bronco. I can't help you with the white smoke out of the exhaust but the last time my bronco kept spewing water everywhere was due to my radiator. I changed my thermostat, water pump, and radiator cap to no avail. The temp gauge kept shooting up to 220-230. Every time i came to a stop the majority of water in my radiator spewed out. Apparently my radiator was completely rusted and the water would be shot out of the radiator due to the rust clogging the holes and causing pressure like when squeezing a hose to have the water jet out. All I did to fix it was send in my radiator to a radiator shop and have them redo the whole radiator. I haven't had problems since. The white smoke however could be that oil is burning which is never good.

Trojan · Mar 22, 2013

Could I have blown the head gasket in that short of drive though? Oil on the dip stick is not milky; looks and feels like it should..

KyleQ · Mar 22, 2013

If your exhaust smells sweet you know the headgasket is toast. Sorry - but overheating a motor like that isn't exactly good for HG longevity either-

For future refrence to everyone - an air chuck end is the same thread pitch as a spark plug - it will screw into the cylinder head and will let you pressureize that cylinder. Works great for doing valve work an/or leak testing.

302 Puking Water

Trojan

KyleQ

Bronco Guru

Bronco Junkie

So Cal Broncos

Trojan

Trojan

AZ73

Bronco Guru

jperry1290

Sr. Member

Trojan

sp71eb

Full Member

Trojan

Broncobowsher

Total hack

Trojan

AZ73

Bronco Guru

Revelation

Bronco Guru

Trojan

PaveBronco

Sr. Member

Trojan

I6bronco

Trojan

KyleQ

Bronco Guru

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