Good advice so far. Sounds like you've done some decent detecting so far, but need more.
First though, do you have links to your other discussions so we can know what was already suggested and not do it over?
How new are the tires? Was it doing this before the tires, or only after?
How is the tire wear, or have you driven it enough to know? Your tire pressures might be fine, but you should verify wear to make sure they're sitting well on the ground. The 10" wheels might require more pressure, and 25 sounds kind of low for that combo to me. I tend to run narrower wheels so the lower pressures work well. With squishy sidewalls and wide wheels though, it might not be enough.
Hey guys, I feel I have made so many posts about this, but this is the first one I'm uploading a video.
Good to have video, thanks. Still like to go over past discussions though.
I replaced the upper tie rod (if thats the name) but not the left and right tie rods.
They look a little loose to me, but it's harder to see the details when you're steering it back and forth that fast and that little. And from so far away.
It's a great view of the whole front end though, which is good. But for better diagnosis we either need to get closer to each component, or at least get some more light on the darker bits. Hard to tell from here if the king-pin bearings or the tie-rod ends are moving.
The trac bar has new bushings and the mount to the frame was egged out, it has since been fixed. The trac bar bolt to frame at the bottom had a broken tack weld, that has since been fixed as well.
Good start right there. Trackbars are so important to the function of a Bronco setup that those mounts need to be good and tight.
...and no cracking along the frame, they would have noticed on install, and I looked myself.
Maybe. Maybe not... Sometimes the cracks in no way show up visually, until the box is back on the frame and you do that test you did, but with more range. Then you'll see the box flex on it's mount.
Yours did look pretty steady and tight in the video, so you're probably ok.
But I wanted to mention that the cracks are not always visible statically.
I do have some oil leaking from under the passenger knuckle, pics attached, but I am assuming that is an unrelated problem. Is that a bad axle seal?
Generally unrelated. Are you sure it's oil though, and not just old grease separating and leaking out of the king pins?
If it's coming out of the axle tube, then yes, it's an axle seal. But if it's just there on the bottom of the knuckle where the four bolts hold the plates on, then it could be leaky king pin setups.
And though WCB probably would have checked those if they were looking for stuff, if you're not sure about that you should check for play in the king pins. Even though that would not "cause" the death wobble, it certainly would make it worse.
The death wobble went away for a few weeks after replacing the upper tie rod, but I hit a bump last night and it came back with vengeance, I am desperately trying to find the source, without replacing my entire front axle, I can't afford that. If you have any input, please let me know!
Replacing the front axle would not seem to be a cure. Sure, some worn items could be a problem, but they can be replaced individually. And yes, if your alignment specs are way out and can't be compensated for, you might have to resort to replacing because it's cheaper than fixing. But for that we need to see the settings. Be nice if they provided you with it, but since they didn't you will need to get it done yourself.
It's just got to be done in my opinion, or you don't know where you're starting from. So it's another expense, but it's part of this equation no matter how you look at it.
Don't avoid it, just get it over to an alignment shop and get either the full printout, or a screen shot of the settings as they are now.
You can often get a discounted rate because they're not adjusting anything in this case. Just giving you the printout. Of course, if you find that the toe-in is way off, you can certainly let them do that.
Just don't let them tell you that you don't need all the numbers. You tell THEM you need the numbers whether they think you do or not.
Do I just need a new tie rod all together? New knuckles or a rebuild?
Not sure. Depends on if it's worn out or not. For this we need to see more close-ups of you working the wheel, or you need to get a helper in there.
You don't usually get new knuckles. Just new parts to rebuild the king-pin bearing setups.
I have a 2.5 lift, 1 inch body lift, 33x12.5 tires and 15x10 rims.
Do you know what the backspacing is on the wheels? Can you shoot us a pic of the side of the truck too, just for grins?
And do you by any chance know what C-bushings are installed? If you don't have that info, at least you'll know what your caster is when you get if to the alignment rack. But you won't know as clearly what needs to be done without knowing what bushings are in there now. Did WCB install them for you? Any chance it's on the paperwork?
When the steering is maxed out to the right the passenger tire hits the radius arm, the the left, the driverside is clear by about 1.5 inches. Not sure if that is unrelated.
Good you mentioned it, but as was said this is related to the lack of a trackbar drop bracket and you're messing with other geometry by not having one.
In spite of the fact that the DW's were worse, removing the drop bracket was a mistake because it negatively impacts other things. Likely the out-of-spec geometry is simply masking the issue. Rather than actually "helping" by correcting something. You
MUST put it back on.
By the way. When you did the videos, was the full weight of the truck on the ground? If not, do the test again with the full weight of the truck on the tires.
It looked like it was, but I wanted to be sure.
And the next time you do the test, turn the wheel slower and go a full half-turn in each direction for a different aspect on the testing.
Thanks.
Ok, now we're getting to the area that I like to harp on. In my opinion, no matter what other components in the steering are making it worse, or even allowing it to take hold in the first place, a Death Wobble can only start at the tire(s) because they're the only thing with enough weight/intertia/leverage to actually be the root cause.
That said, it's not impossible for a ball-joint/kingpin, trackbar, or tie rod to let it happen or make it worse. But if it was only those things without the tires, then every time a trackbar bushing work out we'd have a death wobble. Or any time any of the other things wore out we'd have a death wobble. But we don't...
So, in that other discussion, if I joined in the discussion, did I recommend rotating the tires? Did you happen to try that yet?
While it's rare that a new tire will cause it, it's not unheard of either. I know of at least two people who had to take at least one tire back because it was defective.
Most of the time it's a damaged or deteriorated older tire, but not exclusively.
And the wider tire and wheel combination is more prone to it being worse, because of the sheer mass and leverage they have on the steering. Not because they're automatically bad for the geometry (though they can be), but because they have so much leverage against it.
Basically I'm going to rag on you to test the tire aspect a lot!
;D
From the looks of it, they seem low? Will more air pressure help the situation?
Might. No guarantees at this point, but it can't hurt to try. And as a bonus it doesn't cost much either!
How am I to even out the drag link angle? I had a drop bracket in before and the wobble was worse.
In spite of the wobble being worse, not having a drop bracket with 3.5" of lift is a no-no because everything else is off and you'll never have a good steering Bronco without it.
I disagree with the riser at this point though. Too much else to take into account. For now, a drop is "better" for you and you already have it anyway. Just put it back on and weld it in place as long as the two bars are parallel.
You might have to check before welding though, as your steering box looks custom? Is it a 4x4x2 with the WCB bracket/brace? If so, this could skew the precision of your match between the drop pitman and drop bracket.
I had a drop bracket before, but also with a drop pitman arm, and they took it off when trying to fix the death wobble, after they originally put it in.
The point of using both is to keep the geometry as close to stock original as possible. Changing the angles to be no longer parallel introduces all sorts of other issues. I'm sure WCB knows this, but was trying everything to rid you of your main problem.
But in my opinion it was just masking and going the wrong direction because you need the two bars to match as closely as you can get them.
You also need them to be at a lower overall angle. The steeper they get, the worse your steering and bumpsteer get. The more out of parallel they are the worse your steering feel and bumpsteer get.
The fact that it helped the DW is secondary. Just like a buddy's Bronco that the PO had put two steering stabilizers at opposing angles so they would literally bind up the steering. Sure, it stopped 90% of the DW's, but practically ruined the steering linkage in the process. Putting stress on the box and pump were not great either, but at least he didn't have to replace them.
So just get a drop bracket, and not a drop pitman, and that will even out the track bar?
No. Well, yes it will lower the trackbar, but you can clearly see that they are both needed in conjunction with each other to even the bars out.
Basically even on total full-custom chassis setups with whatever modifications, the two bars need to be:
1. As close to the same length as possible.
2. As close to parallel as possible.
3. As low of an angle as possible.
4. As close to the same plane as possible (hence the riser not being the perfect solution in your case).
5. As robust as possible, given the much larger tires than stock. This is where aftermarket replacements come in handy.
I bet if you put the camera on the linkage during a death wobble incident you'd see the tie-rod flexing like a rubber band and increasing the effect. Ok, so maybe not like a rubber band, but you get the picture.
A few things left to check then. You've done most of it, but maybe look at a couple of new aspects to it.
Also what about the tires? Did you happen to rotate them front to back yet?
If not, take one side at a time and alternate the front and rear tires. Leave the other side where they are at first. This can help isolate the problem if it's only one tire.
If it does not go away, then leave the first two where they are and rotate the other side front to rear.
That's assuming it is a tire of course. But since it can easily be a tire (even a new one) it's worth a shot. If you have a bad one, putting it on the back will get rid of the death wobble 100%.
If you have two bad ones, it can still get rid of it. But if you have three, then you're SOL until you get them replaced.
If they're still under a warranty, you might be able to get it/them replaced still. Assuming they believe you and can find the trouble.
Not sure if a road-force balancer can detect an internal fault with a tire, but with the more modern crop of balancing/testing machines, it's possible.
Good luck.
Looking forward to more videos and pics!
Paul
