Tool for skinning doors???

[deltabronco]

I am reskinning both doors. Is there a tool for crimping the sides of the skins on the doors?

 

[NicksTrix]

there is a tool, but you'll find a air hammer with a flat faced bit and a rubber dolly do a great job.

 

[deltabronco]

I like your idea. I will go with that. I dont know if you remember but i talked to you awhile back about this EB. Recession kicked my but though. Do you ever have any problems with Dennis C. door skins? They didnt seem to have the right mold. I reordered from graveyard, they have nice stuff. Also i need a new hood, the on i have is in great shape but has a few dents in the nose. I was told it would be cheaper to buy a new one. Graveyard has steel for $349 but shipping will be $175. Anyone local??

 

[Steve83]

~$27+sh
http://www.amazon.com/Steck-Autobody-STK21890-Zipper-Skinning/dp/B0017VFME0

 

[deltabronco]

The amazon skinner does look nice. 30 bucks aint bad either.

 

[Madgyver]

Where do you get your door skins?

 

[deltabronco]

Bronco graveyard, very happy. Had some from D Carpenters, they werent so good. I heard NPD has good parts, they are national so maybe they have a dist on the west coast.

 

[allenfahey]

90% of the bodymen I've worked with just use a hammer and a dolly or a rubber sanding block. The 3 best bodymen I've worked with used a hammer and a rubber sanding block to put the skins on and very rarely had to use body filler or a grinder on the outside skin. They would work around it a little at a time and take their time but they don't have to do any filler work or grinding. Most bodymen will grind the outside 4" to remove the dolly marks and if they are bad use filler.
I worked with one bodyman that used the skinner tool that uses a ratchet. He would get the skin at 45 degree angle first then use the skinner tool. He would still have to sand the outside edge.

 

[deltabronco]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to work on it tomorrow. Will post how it goes

 

[gunnibronco]

Expect to use filler or have lumpy door edges. Using an air powered tool will get it done faster, but with more "damage" to the door skin.

I'm still in the learning phases of body work (3+ years), but am working with guys with 20+ years experience and its nearly impossible to skin a door without leaving dents. Sheet metal today is so thin, even using a rubber dolly or hockey puck to back up the hammer leaves marks. I'm not saying we are the best, but we aren't hacks. We are in collision repair, not high end restos.

I'd like to see a guy do a door skin with no filler, I bet I could see their "work". My boss/mentor, WILL NOT accept a lumpy door, and says he's never seen it done without some mud. Of course, the better you get, the less mud you have to use.

The hammer & dolly at the top of this page is what I use:
http://matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2158&page=5&#64214

Chad

 

[gunnibronco]

Don't forget to use a good panel boding adhesive around the outside of the door frame. Some/most current manufacturers (OEM) also add a coat of seam sealer around the inside edge of the skin after installation. (not inside the door, on the back side where the freshly folded metal meets the old door frame-hope that is clear).

We just replaced a complete door on a 70's F-150 with an LMC Truck door shell. The door skin was not bonded to the shell, just folded over (crappy Chinese repro stuff). The door skin will probably start tearing at the fold from vibration before too long. Not much we could do about it, and the customer supplied the door, so unfortunately for him its his problem.

Also, test fit the door before filler & paint. You can correct where the door does not match the quarter or fender. Many times, especially if the door was hit, the frame may be bent & the panel will be higher or lower than the other panels. You can tap down the high spots with a flat body hammer. Use a wooden paint paddle over the spot to minimize the dents you'll leave. If the door has a low spot or corner, you can hit the back edge of the door with a rubber hammer or very small dead blow hammer. Or put a piece of 2x4 or hockey puck between the door & door frame where you are low. FIRMLY, sometimes VERY FIRMLY, close the door (don't slam, just PUSH) to carefully bend it back to where it matches the rest of the body. Trust me, it sucks to fit a freshly painted door, only to find it doesn't quite match. That is not the time to find out.

I've learned that a lot of body work is all about very specifically placed brute force.

Chad

 

[dave vh]

the eastwood co. in malvern pa has tool also. they have lots of oddball tools .check them out

 

[firehawk]

Expect to use filler or have lumpy door edges. Using an air powered tool will get it done faster, but with more "damage" to the door skin.

I'm still in the learning phases of body work (3+ years), but am working with guys with 20+ years experience and its nearly impossible to skin a door without leaving dents. Sheet metal today is so thin, even using a rubber dolly or hockey puck to back up the hammer leaves marks. I'm not saying we are the best, but we aren't hacks. We are in collision repair, not high end restos.

I'd like to see a guy do a door skin with no filler, I bet I could see their "work". My boss/mentor, WILL NOT accept a lumpy door, and says he's never seen it done without some mud. Of course, the better you get, the less mud you have to use.

The hammer & dolly at the top of this page is what I use:
http://matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2158&page=5𥳐

Chad

I install door skins without sanding the edge or using filler, there is the occasion that I need to use a little but it can be done without.

The secret is to take your time. Lite impacts from the hammer or air hammer will yield results of a pro.

Only use enough force to move the metal a little at a time working your way along all edges.

Best to start at each corner and flatten it down to hold the skin in place, then you can check to make sure it lines up properly with the surrounding panels. Then you can finish folding the lip over carefully.

Don't forget to apply the door skin adhesive before you start, this will hold it in place solidly when it dries and prevent moisture from getting in the seam and rusting.

It is common for the e-coat to crack and peel a little from folding the edge over but it doesn't always happen. Probably has a little to do with the age of the e-coat primer. The older it is the more probable it is to crack and peel. Just sand and feather it out then spray some primer on it to smooth it out. It is wise to use an epoxy or etch primer on bare steel before the high build primer.

A trick to not damage the outer skin is to put masking tape on the dolly, or use a rubber
coated dolly. http://www.performancemetalshaping.net/catalog/item/6914771/6930725.htm

One more thing, make sure you test fit the door on the body before the door skin adhesive sets or it will be too late to make adjustments.

 

[gunnibronco]

I'd love to watch someone do a door that way. There are so many "right" ways to do body work, its all about who is teaching, and who taught them. Most of what you say is how I do my skins. Starting at the corners, panel bonding adhesive, rubber dolly, etc. I must be hitting the skin edge harder & trying to fold the skin in too few hammer strikes.

I'm curious how much time it takes, to take your time, doing a door skin. Door skins are something that I'm still not doing very fast, relative to the time the job pays. I guess if you don't have to use any mud, then you can take more time installing the skin. I try not to hurry, but when a job pays 5 or 6 hours to remove a door, door parts (handles, window, etc), remove the skin, install a new skin, test fit the door, re-remove the door, then after paint, reinstall the door, window, handle, trim panel, belt molding, etc. You can't really be too slow or you're hourly pay drops pretty fast.

Now I've got a new goal to achieve, no one in my shop does a skin without some mud, so I've never expected to do it. I'm not using much, and it seems to take less each time I do a skin, but I know I NEED a little filler at the end of the job, or it'll look like crap.

Chad

 

[BroncoJAK]

I very seldom to never have to use any filler. I use a steel heel dolly and a med. ball pen hammer. It just works for me, I wouldn't recommend it. Had a young guy watch me do one, never asked me anything just watched. Sure enough when he had one to do he pulled out a ball peen and a steel dolly. Took him days to straighten out that door. One of the owners brought his truck to me to fix because it needed a skin. That is instead of the Mercedes body shop where he's at usually, over 3 hours away. Have been known to not break through the e coat too. On average I'd say it takes me .5 hour to hammer on the skin. One trick I use for a more factory look on the inside is smoothing out the edge with a scotch bright disc. It will remove most of the hammer marks.

 

[BroncoJAK]

I'd love to watch someone do a door that way. There are so many "right" ways to do body work, its all about who is teaching, and who taught them. Most of what you say is how I do my skins. Starting at the corners, panel bonding adhesive, rubber dolly, etc. I must be hitting the skin edge harder & trying to fold the skin in too few hammer strikes.

I'm curious how much time it takes, to take your time, doing a door skin. Door skins are something that I'm still not doing very fast, relative to the time the job pays. I guess if you don't have to use any mud, then you can take more time installing the skin. I try not to hurry, but when a job pays 5 or 6 hours to remove a door, door parts (handles, window, etc), remove the skin, install a new skin, test fit the door, re-remove the door, then after paint, reinstall the door, window, handle, trim panel, belt molding, etc. You can't really be too slow or you're hourly pay drops pretty fast.

Now I've got a new goal to achieve, no one in my shop does a skin without some mud, so I've never expected to do it. I'm not using much, and it seems to take less each time I do a skin, but I know I NEED a little filler at the end of the job, or it'll look like crap.

Chad

Door skins are not a money making operation. Mainly because nobody writes them with all the things you have to do. Just like you have listed. Most estimating systems do not include time to remove the door. It's the old way it was done, door on the car. Most databases are not set up to include time for evrything needed to do the job. Just try it, have your estimator to add R&I time for the door. If it's included it will say so on the estimate (Incl.). If it adds time, it's not included in the operation. When these databases were first coming out they were marketed to the ins. companies that they would include all the needed operations. To shops that they could show all the operations you can add that aren't included.
Why do insurance adjusters wives have c-section births?

 

[firehawk]

Door skins are not a money making operation. Mainly because nobody writes them with all the things you have to do. Just like you have listed. Most estimating systems do not include time to remove the door. It's the old way it was done, door on the car. Most databases are not set up to include time for evrything needed to do the job. Just try it, have your estimator to add R&I time for the door. If it's included it will say so on the estimate (Incl.). If it adds time, it's not included in the operation. When these databases were first coming out they were marketed to the ins. companies that they would include all the needed operations. To shops that they could show all the operations you can add that aren't included.
Why do insurance adjusters wives have c-section births?

Because they give birth to monsters? They are the most heartless people on earth, most of them anyhow. I wish I could cut their pay just once to see how they like it, basterds.

 

[gunnibronco]

Most estimating systems do not include time to remove the door. It's the old way it was done, door on the car.

Wow, that would be tough. Never even considered doing it on the car. Still won't. Its good to know about adding the R&I time, I'll check. I've learned a little bit about our estimating system, but we just changed programs. I'll be the next to learn it, and I'll be estimating when the manager is out. This is a new career, and I do truly enjoy it. With 20+ years of shadetree auto repair & 15 years of owning a spa, stove/fireplace & billiard store, I've been a fast learner. I'm serious about making this my last career.

I won't use a steel dolly anytime soon. We just reorganized our body shop (closed a small shop @ the dealership) and moved the guy to our remote shop. He is older (in his 50's) than myself, 38, & my mentor 42. He used a steel dolly & ball peen hammer too. His work needed filler. He may have been a great bodyguy many years ago, but bad habits have his attention, not bodywork. But, I do like seeing other ways of doing things, and he has some slick tricks & good advice.

I do use the Scotchbright rolock (SP?) to clean up the back side, works out nicely.

Insurance adjusters suck. The ones we have to deal with, have never touched a car, except to steer one. Fortunately, we are the biggest shop in a small town in the middle of nowhere and there is limited competition. So we can get a little more flexibility.

Again, thanks for the advice. Living in a small town also means a smaller pool of experts & I had never heard of skinning a door without a little mud. I stand corrected.

Chad

 

[BroncoJAK]

Because they give birth to monsters? They are the most heartless people on earth, most of them anyhow. I wish I could cut their pay just once to see how they like it, basterds.

Why do insurance adjusters wives have c-section births?

Because their husbands won't pay for the labor.;D