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Drive train for High Power Engine

LowCountryEB

Jr. Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
255
Loc.
Charleston, SC
I ordered my 408 Stroker Crate last week. While I wait, what do I need to do to beef up my current drive train? I currently run an NP435, 4.11's, and 35's. It looks like I have a Ford 9" rear end. My Bronco is a weekend driver and doesn't go off road. I want to be very quick off the line and I rarely go over 55 mph.

Transfer case: Do I need to replace my current Transfer Case? I'm not sure what I currently have, but I believe it is stock. I have read a lot of great things about the NP205. And it looks like the Atlas may be the best option, but it's expensive.

Gears: Should I stay with 4.11's or go to 4.56's? Or another option?

Drive shaft: Do I need to upgrade from the stock drive shaft? Should I buy from WH's or have one built locally? I do have a shop that specializes in drive shafts (heavy duty trucks).

Rear axle: Do I need to upgrade from my stock rear axle? I'm really clueless about this aspect, so any help you can offer is appreciated.

I'd greatly appreciate your input. Your comments about the above and the best places to buy the parts is great. WH's, Toms, Junkyards, etc... THANKS!
 

Digger556

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
797
I ordered my 408 Stroker Crate last week. While I wait, what do I need to do to beef up my current drive train? I currently run an NP435, 4.11's, and 35's. It looks like I have a Ford 9" rear end. My Bronco is a weekend driver and doesn't go off road. I want to be very quick off the line and I rarely go over 55 mph.

Transfer case: Do I need to replace my current Transfer Case? I'm not sure what I currently have, but I believe it is stock. I have read a lot of great things about the NP205. And it looks like the Atlas may be the best option, but it's expensive.

Gears: Should I stay with 4.11's or go to 4.56's? Or another option?

Drive shaft: Do I need to upgrade from the stock drive shaft? Should I buy from WH's or have one built locally? I do have a shop that specializes in drive shafts (heavy duty trucks).

Rear axle: Do I need to upgrade from my stock rear axle? I'm really clueless about this aspect, so any help you can offer is appreciated.

I'd greatly appreciate your input. Your comments about the above and the best places to buy the parts is great. WH's, Toms, Junkyards, etc... THANKS!


Trans: Okay

Transfer Case: Upgrade internals and output or switch to Atlas. I prefer Atlas.

Driveshaft: Upgrade to 1330 or 1350 U-joints

Rear Axle: Depends on how hard you want to hammer this thing. With good driving techniques, stock 31 spline axle shafts are okay. Either gear ratio is fine, but 4.56s gears will reduce strain on the driveshaft and pinion yoke/shaft.

For bulletproof rear axle, you will need a nodular iron 3rd member and 35+ spline axle shafts.

Axle shaft size will determine differential carrier. Alloy 31 spline axles are pretty strong and good enough for most folks.
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
I ordered my 408 Stroker Crate last week. While I wait, what do I need to do to beef up my current drive train? I currently run an NP435, 4.11's, and 35's. It looks like I have a Ford 9" rear end. My Bronco is a weekend driver and doesn't go off road. I want to be very quick off the line and I rarely go over 55 mph.

Transfer case: Do I need to replace my current Transfer Case? I'm not sure what I currently have, but I believe it is stock. I have read a lot of great things about the NP205. And it looks like the Atlas may be the best option, but it's expensive.

Gears: Should I stay with 4.11's or go to 4.56's? Or another option?

Drive shaft: Do I need to upgrade from the stock drive shaft? Should I buy from WH's or have one built locally? I do have a shop that specializes in drive shafts (heavy duty trucks).

Rear axle: Do I need to upgrade from my stock rear axle? I'm really clueless about this aspect, so any help you can offer is appreciated.

I'd greatly appreciate your input. Your comments about the above and the best places to buy the parts is great. WH's, Toms, Junkyards, etc... THANKS!

The Atlas is a waste of money if you don't go off road.
The NP205 is a better and more cost effective option for your use.
The stock Dana 20 transfer case will work especially if you replace the rear output with the Heavy Duty one that WH sells (makes it as strong there as the NP205 or the Atlas)

The Ford 9 inch is used on drag racers with four digit horsepower.
Replace the stock 28 spline axle shafts with at least 31 spline or better yet 35 spline.
Replace the third member with a nodular iron one.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,353
... currently run an NP435, 4.11's, and 35's.
My Bronco is a weekend driver and doesn't go off road. I want to be very quick off the line and I rarely go over 55 mph.

Then I say 4.56 or 4.88's for you. Then just start in First instead of LOW (or if you prefer, 2nd instead of 1st). I run 4.56's with 30" tall tires, so it sure would not be out of line for your 35's!
And start with the rear only. This way you save a lot of money if you don't like the first choice and decide to go with a lower or taller gear.
You may even decide not to do anything with the front gears and just leave the front driveshaft off, if you don't plan to use 4wd.

Transfer case: Do I need to replace my current Transfer Case?

Your stock case would be a Dana 20. Fairly strong for it's size and weight, but not bomb-proof by any stretch. The heavy duty output is a good upgrade, but the best thing you can do in addition to that is to make sure it's in good shape inside and has the proper lubricant in it to keep things happy.
The good news is that if you go with the lower gearing, such as the 4.88 in the diff, that takes quite a bit of the loading off of things upstream. That includes the transfer case, transmission and driveshafts. The items left downstream that you have to worry about at that point are the axle shafts and, if you really hammer on it during your daily routine, the axle housing itself.
Keeping the taller 4.11's with 35's keeps more stress on all the upstream parts, right up to the engine.
And lower is easier to get the hole shot...
Not always something that Bronco owners discuss, but better acceleration seems to come up more and more these days.

I have read a lot of great things about the NP205. And it looks like the Atlas may be the best option, but it's expensive.

Yes, the 205 is probably stronger than the D20 even with the HD output. It's just beefier. And since off-roading is not sounding like your thing, the taller 2:1 gearing of the 205 vs the 2.46 or lower of the D20 is not a detractor.
Agree that, while the Atlas is 'da bomb in transfer cases, it's not needed for what you're talking about and one of it's main claims to fame (the optional lower gearing) is not really a big benefit to you.

Gears: Should I stay with 4.11's or go to 4.56's? Or another option?

You already know my feelings on that, but I'll say again that I think the 4.88's would be more fitting for what you are describing as your preferences in performance and driving.

Drive shaft: Do I need to upgrade from the stock drive shaft?

I would have to say "maybe" in this case. Depending on how patient you are, you might just drive on the stock t-case and driveshafts to see if you break them or not. If you go with the lower gearing you are taking some of the load off of the shaft, but whether or not that's enough is going to be up to your right foot ultimately.
You would do well to consider running 1330 or 1350 series u-joints. Which would entail new yokes for the transfer case and the rear differential. And the new shaft with the bigger joints.
As much as I'm a fan of doing some things locally, we would have a better price on a high quality shaft of your choosing. We use Tom Woods for most of our shafts and can have custom ones made to your specs pretty easily and quickly. And likely much less expensively than a local shop could do it.
But even the heavy duty "Extreme" shafts we sell would be a light upgrade over your stock ones. Same size u-joints, but smaller diameter, thicker tubing helps with torsional stresses without the bulk of a very large diameter tube.

Should I buy from WH's or have one built locally? I do have a shop that specializes in drive shafts (heavy duty trucks).

Love to sell you stuff of course(!) but it would not hurt for you to at least stop in and see what they have to offer and for how much. It's usually good to have at least a basic relationship with the local guys if you like what they offer.
If not quite sure, we're still here for you.

Rear axle: Do I need to upgrade from my stock rear axle?

As mentioned already, yes and no. The Ford 9" housing and third-member and gears are very robust (usually) but if you're planning to have "a lot of fun" with this setup, a heavier duty housing is not a bad idea. And really not that expensive.
But upgraded shafts are a must. The stock 28 spline shafts were great for the size tires and expected uses that Broncos had when they were being built. But if you add more power and more tire, you need more shaft.
And if you add a limited-slip diff, or worse still a locker of some kind, a shaft upgrade becomes even more critical.
Your choice for the two most common upgrades. 31 splines and better material are quite a bit stronger, but if you're not sure it's enough, go big with the 35 splines. The remaining upgrade from that is a better-still material. For at least some of our 35 spline setups we use Dutchman which have an optional special alloy available over and above the normal special alloy. Should be VERY strong for minimal higher price.
But for 35's you also have to upgrade to the better/bigger center sections like the Nodular Iron versions mentioned. They use the larger carrier bearing size that allows the larger diameter 35 spline axles to fit, where they would not in a stock type setup.

Housings are easy as point and click. Here are a couple of excellent choices that we offer at least. The HD Super 9 and the Megalodon are the first two items on this page: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Bronco_Rear_Housing and run the range of quick-n-easy offerings. The nice thing about buying something like these from a Bronco vendor is that the extra large perches are welded on at the correct angle for most lifted Broncos already (at least I know ours are), so you don't need additional shims to correct improper pinion angle. Not a big deal, but a nice little extra.
At $489, the Super 9 is a pretty good bang-for-the-buck candidate.
The Megalodon is overkill for most, but not for all. And the bragging rights at stoplights and the parking lot conversations started when someone eyes one of those things under your rig are priceless!
I usually recommend clear-coating them instead of painting. This keeps the look of the fully fabricated housing, without the eventual rust issue.

If you go to junkyards anyway, you can keep your eyes open for a vehicle that had a custom rear end already (not common, but they're out there) for the best price. But you likely won't find one that's the appropriate size or feature level in anything but another Early Bronco. Good luck on that in most areas!

One thing we didn't touch on is steering linkage. With the larger tires I would upgrade to a stronger steering link if you have not already. Something like on this page: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Custom_tie_rods such as the #2351 for '66 to '75 front axles will give you not only the added adjustability to compensate better for lifts, but a much stronger tie-rod to eliminate or at least reduce the deflection that larger tires can cause. More stable wheelies and drifting don't you know...%););D

Usually multiple choices out there. But this'll get you started. Hopefully we have at least some of the parts and info you need to get what you want from a performance and reliability standpoint.

Paul
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,678
I would add a new axle housing to the mix. The 9" is pretty strong. But the Bronco version does tend to flex a lot. Cracked welds are not that uncommon. That is with smaller tires and less power. Ford even caved in for the '77 and put the big banjo rear end for that one year. The aftermarket has made for a good affordable selection.

If you are getting everything new the 35 spline upgrade is almost free. Biggest issue is the limited differential selection. ARB or Detroit are the only choices that would work for you. Don't know of any 35 spline limited slips.
 

Apogee

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,209
For street use and presumably 500HP/500 ft-lb, I would run the '77 style broad/gusseted housing, or better yet, an aftermarket with larger tube diameters, and a back brace for if/when the tires actually hook hard. If you want bullet proof, then 35-spline axles and a 3.25" nodular case are a given IMHO. Autotech sells a really nice Wavetrac 35-spline limited slip differential through Moser that you might consider...they're not cheap, but I have customers running them on pro-touring muscle cars with 500-1000 HP and race tires with no issues.
 
Last edited:

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,223
Remember, whether you have 100 or 1000 HP or TQ, its how you use it or hammer it. Weekend warrior with no attempts to do 1/4 mile starts or burnouts? You're fine with what you have.
 

5001craig

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,180
One thing that's not really talked about is maintaining pinion angle while putting the power to the ground. That is why I started looking at a 4-link rear end and ultimately went with the Duff 4-link. Hard to keep u-joints together when the pinion angle is drastically changing under leafs.

But I still carry a spare Tom Woods rear driveshaft. ;D
 

Casey835

Sr. Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
759
Carolina driveline is close to you and have quality shafts at good prices and are good and easy to work with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

norm02

Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
336
Subscribed. I'm glad to hear that pretty much everything can handle that power level as l'll eventually have a similar set up but I was hoping for a 5 or a 6spd manual. There doesn't appear to be any options that can handle the power that the OP mentioned so it looks like I'll be going with a 4spd or a 6spd auto.

OP, what clutch do you have in your NP435? Is it up to the task of handling the added power?
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
Subscribed. I'm glad to hear that pretty much everything can handle that power level as l'll eventually have a similar set up but I was hoping for a 5 or a 6spd manual. There doesn't appear to be any options that can handle the power that the OP mentioned so it looks like I'll be going with a 4spd or a 6spd auto.

OP, what clutch do you have in your NP435? Is it up to the task of handling the added power?

As to a 5 speed the S5-47 version of the ZF 5 speed is rated for 470 ft/lbs by ZF, but it and the previous S5-42 are said to be underrated by 15%

Another option may be the NV5600 bigger, stronger and heavier than the NV3550
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,678
I don't think there is an adaptor for the NV5600. Besides that thing is massive. The pure physical size is more in line of the size of an engine block than a transmission. You will run out of room under the floor very quickly.

The car 6-speeds tend to favor very high overdrives. Which (even with a massive stroker) will still require silly low axle gearing.
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
I don't think there is an adaptor for the NV5600. Besides that thing is massive. The pure physical size is more in line of the size of an engine block than a transmission. You will run out of room under the floor very quickly.

The car 6-speeds tend to favor very high overdrives. Which (even with a massive stroker) will still require silly low axle gearing.

Which is why I said may be when I posted that.

There are adapters made for the NV4500, but it isn't rated for as much torque as the ZF S5-47 which would not require an adapter on either end if used with the NP205 transfer case.
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
841
As to a 5 speed the S5-47 version of the ZF 5 speed is rated for 470 ft/lbs by ZF, but it and the previous S5-42 are said to be underrated by 15%....

Does a ZF5 shift well enough to consider it for a "hot rod" type vehicle? I've never driven one, but the ZF6 in my '08 F-250 was a horrible shifting trans for anything lighter than a dumptruck. And the only unbiased review I've heard of the ZF5 said it didn't shift quite as well as a T-18 (which sounds better than my '08 ZF6 but still maybe not what you'd want in a hot rod).
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
Does a ZF5 shift well enough to consider it for a "hot rod" type vehicle? I've never driven one, but the ZF6 in my '08 F-250 was a horrible shifting trans for anything lighter than a dumptruck. And the only unbiased review I've heard of the ZF5 said it didn't shift quite as well as a T-18 (which sounds better than my '08 ZF6 but still maybe not what you'd want in a hot rod).

No, it won't shift like a car transmission.

It is a truck transmission and shifts like one.

A short throw shift kit will help some but still not make it like a car.

Your choices are a car transmission unsuited to a 4x4 truck type vehicle such as a Bronco or a truck transmission unsuited to a car.
A transmission that won't handle the torque or has the wrong ratios is not an improvement over one that is hard to shift IMO.

The thread starter has an NP435 transmission, that is another heavy duty truck transmission.
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
841
....Your choices are a car transmission unsuited to a 4x4 truck type vehicle such as a Bronco or a truck transmission unsuited to a car....

... or an automatic. As much as I dislike automatics I really can't see putting a dump truck trans behind an engine that you dumped a bunch of money into to get it to be fun to rip around in.

I could see putting a car manual trans in a 2WD truck (or a longer wheelbase truck with a divorce-mount transfer case) if it was a trans that was actually built to handle the torque and still shift OK. But none of that really applies to Broncos.

....The thread starter has an NP435 transmission, that is another heavy duty truck transmission.

The NP435 is very similar to a T-18, and as I said above, the only unbiased report I've heard on the ZF5 is that it doesn't shift as well as a T-18. If it were me I wouldn't want to go to the effort and expense to swap a ZF5 in and find out it shifts worse (even if it does add an overdrive), which is why I was asking for other opinions.

I have heard a lot of people say a ZF5 is a great trans, but most of them seem to bleed Ford blue, and while there's nothing wrong with that, thinking that a trans is great just because Ford bought and resold it isn't helpful. And the same people that seem to like the ZF5 also seem to think a ZF6 is the Holy Grail of transmissions. All I know about the ZF6 is that both of the ones that were in my '08 F-250 shifted bad enough that I was able to get Ford to buy the truck back from me. So when people who like the ZF5 also like the ZF6 I tend to think that the ability to shift gears the first time you try(without getting stuck in neutral and needing to coast to a stop) must not be a requirement for them.
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
There really isn't any way that I can see to get high horsepower and high torque and car-like shifting in a 4 wheel drive Bronco with a manual transmission.

If you want something that drives and shifts like a Mustang sell the Bronco and buy a Mustang.

I chose the ZF5 because for my uses it is the best compromise.
It has a low first gear for the trails and an overdrive to help me get to and from those trails.
It does shift like a truck, but I have driven trucks for many years and can live with that.
 
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