Eldorado Calipers / No Holding Power

[DanWheeler]

hey all, long time no post.

Just finished up installing the Eldorado calipers for my Sterling rear axle. Used Lokar cables and handle - really came out nice. Everything is engaging perfectly and I adjusted the calipers so the lever engages the brake at about 1/8th of an inch just like the Wild Horses video shows.

Well about $500 and 2 days later, my e-brake is totally useless. It doesn't have enough holding power to prevent me from pushing the truck with the parking brake engaged.

I think the piston inside the caliper is spinning in the housing when I crank on the e-brake too hard. This immediately ruins the adjustment and makes it completely useless. I think it's doing this because after I lost adjustment once, I took the pads off and could see a big ring of missing brake quiet goop where the piston has spun.

Are these caddy brakes universally agreed to be useless? Did I miss the memo?

 

[DanWheeler]

Confirmed... the piston is spinning inside the caliper. This prevents any further pressure being applied to the pad/rotor because piston is just spinning back onto the worm gear instead of pushing harder.

dang... not even sure what to do about this.

[youtube]0mn1pkl8YPQ[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mn1pkl8YPQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[OX1]

Back in the day I had them on a 78 with 44 boggers that had
to pass inspection, and it did (subjective test used to
see how long it takes to stop, from like 5 MPH).

So I think they work (worked). Downside is they did not work
very long, and got seized up pretty quick. Now it was a mud truck,
but I had read later on that even on newer caddies that came with them,
they didn't last too long and were not reliable.

Hence why I went with Mk VII rear calipers. Some say those
are not reliable either (but at least it is a ford part and was much newer at
the time, compared to the old caddy stuff), but my dad fox body LTD,
converted to Mk VII 5 lug has been on the same set for 14 years, emerg
brake still working and unlike the rest of us, he uses is religiously.

So anyway, I think yours are just damaged somehow.

 

[bronconut73]

BC has a nice tech page on how to properly adjust them.
If the procedure is followed the Caddy calipers can apparently grab pretty good. Chuck once indicated here in CB that it helps to use new calipers instead of re-built.

I don't run an emergency brake. So I used S-10 front calipers in the rear. No seizing up, no issues at all for nearly 20 years.

 

[SteveL]

Another member also did a write up on em saying on most the crap rebuilt calipers they don't get into the e-brake mechanism. He rebuilt his own showing and describing how to clean out and rebuild the e-brake along with the rest of the caliper. With doing that he said his work fine

 

[nvrstuk]

x5 on needing new Caddy calipers instead of rebuilt ones...

I bought rebuilt ones 20 years or more ago and the ebrake never worked...I didn't hook up the cables but ...

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey Dan, long time for sure!
Where did you get the calipers? Any return-ability with the seller?
We've seen some of the swap calipers that were simply not even able to be adjusted in the past. Don't remember anyone talking about it lately, so maybe we've been getting lucky here on the forums (and at WH) or maybe not that many are being used right now.

But if there's a chance yours are defective, perhaps they can be swapped out for some good ones.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[nvrstuk]

Paul, I think you're right on (again) with the lack of Caddy calipers being used...so many of us tried them 20+ yrs back and so many had problems with them...


I even used the Exploder disc/drum brake setup anticipating using it but never wanted cables hanging that low.

Dan, have you thought about returning the Caddy calipers and going with the driveline rotor/ebrake?

I'm finally going to go with the one that PartsMikes sells... Seems to clamp pretty well. Think I'm going to use an air actuator to clamp it tight.

Something like this: http://www.partsmike.com/index.php/categories/brakes/page-1/

 

[OX1]

Is there some reason that we are not just using a separate mechanical caliper?
On trail rigs especially you could put it up top, get those emerg brakes cables away from the ground.
I know that is what I am going to try, if/when I ever do this again.

https://www.brembo.com/en/van/original-equipment/products/parking-brake
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...CqfpJknbmcXylQal0f-UTP540jZReWRxoCXpgQAvD_BwE

 

[SteveL]

Is there some reason that we are not just using a separate mechanical caliper?
On trail rigs especially you could put it up top, get those emerg brakes cables away from the ground.
I know that is what I am going to try, if/when I ever do this again.

https://www.brembo.com/en/van/original-equipment/products/parking-brake
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...CqfpJknbmcXylQal0f-UTP540jZReWRxoCXpgQAvD_BwE

Looks like you have to fab up an extra bracket for em. Sounds easier to get the caddy e-brake working roght.

 

[nvrstuk]

For Dan, myself and I'm sure many others you run out of room around the rear rotor area fast. I run ORI's and a caliper on the end of each axle tube. Suspension design says mount the strut outboard as far as possible.

For most applications you'd have:

-a caliper bracket
- a shock bracket
- a strut bracket

Where will you find room for another caliper?

After owning a set of Caddy calipers I think the design of the early Caddy ones is...well, a Model T design...kinda worked but didn't.

I'd try the newer Wilwood calipers or go with the ebrake on the flange at the end of the T-case...it's still mechanical AND you don't have cables hanging out there

 

[OX1]

For Dan, myself and I'm sure many others you run out of room around the rear rotor area fast. I run ORI's and a caliper on the end of each axle tube. Suspension design says mount the strut outboard as far as possible.

For most applications you'd have:

-a caliper bracket
- a shock bracket
- a strut bracket

Just curious, what shock are you running with ORI's?

Where will you find room for another caliper?

Guess every install is different, but assuming these are typical
EB/ORI/4 link installs, seems to be plenty of room on fwd edge
of rotor for that tiny caliper, no??

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user...28vSU1HXzIwMTYwNDI3XzIzNDYzOTEzMy5qcGc=/?ref=

Even with the struts out farther, rotor is still sunk
into wheel/tire enough, I would think, to be
far enough away from another small caliper.

http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/1692...1/020-1973-ford-bronco-302-37s-ori-struts.jpg

 

[nvrstuk]

Tight...it could be mounted at the bottom... My 4 link mounts are out as far as they can go and you can see the ORI's are about as close to the caliper as possible...

 

[DanWheeler]

hey guys, I have an update with some good news on the Eldorado calipers. These are brand new from a reseller. I'm working with them on this issue.

I'm beginning to think that everyone who has tried the Eldorado calipers and didn't get decent holding power may have had spinning pistons like in my video. I'm now 100% certain that is why I'm not getting any holding power and without the notch to keep the piston from spinning, they will go out of adjustment instantly and lose all holding power.


Before modifying the brake pad (which I'll get to in a minute) I adjusted the levers so they were engaging with minimal lever travel (about 1/8th of an inch) as shown in all the adjustment videos. I then pressed hard and held the foot brake while pulling up on the e-brake lever. This had some limited success however the piston still spun a bit which reduced the holding power. I then pulled full force on the e-brake without the foot brake and both pistons immediately spun setting the whole thing out of adjustment and making the e-brake useless.


So... now to get that pin back on the pad to keep it from spinning.


First, see the rings in the back of the pad from the piston spinning?

next step was to drill into the pad backing and install a 3/16ths rivet then grind it down so it fits into the notch on the piston

use a paint pen to transfer the location of the rivet to the pad:

then use a large drill bit to clearance the pad for the other side of the rivet

install the backing pad onto the pad with rivet:

And then install the pad back onto the caliper, spinning the notch in the piston until it lines up with the notch on the pad

Now you just have to adjust the lever and worm gear so engagement occurs at about 1/8th of an inch from the lever backstop. I have more info to share here but I'll save it for a write-up or video.

Long story short - with the pin in place, after pulling up hard on the e-brake, I was not able to rotate the hub with a crow bar wedged in between the lug studs. This is the first time I've been able to get it to lock up hard where I wasn't able to budge it.


I was only able to do one side but initial results are really promising. Next week I'll be able to do the other side and take it out for a test drive to see if I can get it to lock up while moving. That would be ideal but even if it could hold on a hill, that would be great too.


@nvrstuck - I bought a driveline e-brake from Jess at High Angle Driveline. I still have it but I decided to go with the Eldorado system. Long story.

 

[Bronco4x4]

Dan, I think you figured it out. This looks like a great idea. I gave up on the Caddy E-brake I put in a long time ago. Never looked at it since there was poor holding force from the beginning. Maybe now I can idle the vehicle in park. Thank you. AL

 

[OX1]

So some kits sell the pads without the pins?
Can't just get new pads?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake...h=item3f674dead7:g:8CcAAOSwXk9bnKZr:rk:3:pf:0

 

[DanWheeler]

Is there some reason that we are not just using a separate mechanical caliper?
On trail rigs especially you could put it up top, get those emerg brakes cables away from the ground.
I know that is what I am going to try, if/when I ever do this again.

https://www.brembo.com/en/van/original-equipment/products/parking-brake
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...CqfpJknbmcXylQal0f-UTP540jZReWRxoCXpgQAvD_BwE

I like this idea, I think I would have room. Would require some new brackets but looks like the wilwood can only fit a .8” rotor and I’m pretty sure the 1-ton rotors are way over that. Otherwise I’d probably be all for this. Time will tell if my caddy calipers lose adjustment over time. If not, this might be a good option.

 

[bronconut73]

So some kits sell the pads without the pins?
Can't just get new pads?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake...h=item3f674dead7:g:8CcAAOSwXk9bnKZr:rk:3:pf:0

Does that little tab on the pads you show do what the custom rivet does?
If so, bingo, bango, bongo.

 

[DanWheeler]

Yeah I think the pads with the pins are a little harder to come by and it’s not well understood how important they are so resellers are sending them out with basic MKD153 pads. Mine came without pins but yes if I can get these things to hold tight with a homemade pin, then I’ll try ordering some pads that have pins in the pictures. I modified mine because I wanted to prove the theory quickly without spending the money in new pads that may or may not have the pins as shown in the pictures.

 

[OX1]

Does that little tab on the pads you show do what the custom rivet does?
If so, bingo, bango, bongo.

Yes, IIRC from back in the day, that pin is it.
The pads without the pins are front pads from the same car.



http://luxjo.supermotors.net/79 PRETTY/BRAKES/ELDORADO brake pads.jpg