Another door fitment question

[widowmaker77]

Guys I’ve searched around but I’m unable to find the issue I’m having. Any help would be greatly appreciated because I’m about to pull my hair out.
I’m trying to do a pre fit of doors, new windshield frame and front fenders before primer and paint. Here is my issue that I just can’t wrap my head around.
Gap at the top of window frame to windshield is 1/4”.
Gap at bottom is 3/8” to 7/16”
Door gap at top of door to rear quarter is 1/4”
Door gap at bottom of door to rear quarter is around 7/16”
I replaced the rockers and the gap there looks good. I’m trying to get the gaps right at the rear of the door and windshield frame before I tackle the front fenders. I have new body mounts, new driver side door, new floor panels, new rockers , new windshield frame and new front fenders. Everything in this area is original
Can anyone tell me how I’m suppose to get the bottom door frame closer to the windshield while also getting the gap at the rear of the door even and straight?
Ps. If someone can tell me how to post pictures I’ll try to post some tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[DirtDonk]

Well first off, you can't do anything with regard to the windshield frame until the hard top is installed. Or you install some kind of rigid bracing that will hold it in place.
But you can't even worry about that until you get the rear quarter dialed in.

If your rocker is straight to the door, then we can only hope that you installed it correctly and now you'll have to make the adjustment to the verticality of the rear striker post / B-pillar. And the only way I know of to do that is to shim the body mounts behind it.

You have four mounts behind, but I'm thinking that because the gap is larger at the bottom of the door, then the two mid mounts just behind the seats are the ones to deal with first. Shimming them up slightly (or at least one side if the other door opening is fine?) should widen the gap at the top.

Are the body mount insulators old and sagged, or have they been replaced?
If they are old and questionable you can't even consider aligning body parts until they're replaced. If they are new, then you can tweak them to suit.
In this case, tweaking could be adding body shims, or perhaps even just tightening the rear-most mounts more than the mid mounts. You can only squeeze them so tight of course, but you can gain at least an additional 1/8" of compression this way I'm sure, depending on which type of mounting hardware is used.
With factory hardware, or an inner sleeve that acts as a limiter, you're stuck with adding shims to raise the mounts. If no limitations, then you can compress them slightly.

Hope that helps get you started anyway.
Are both sides the same?

Paul

 

[triracer67]

As mentioned, body bushings and spacers may help. I recently replaced bushings, and added two spacers to correct driver door gaps using this chart. I now have perfect gap on fifty year old body.

 

[Tiko433]

That’s good shim tech sheet. Thanks for sharing

 

[widowmaker77]

Well first off, you can't do anything with regard to the windshield frame until the hard top is installed. Or you install some kind of rigid bracing that will hold it in place.
But you can't even worry about that until you get the rear quarter dialed in.

If your rocker is straight to the door, then we can only hope that you installed it correctly and now you'll have to make the adjustment to the verticality of the rear striker post / B-pillar. And the only way I know of to do that is to shim the body mounts behind it.

You have four mounts behind, but I'm thinking that because the gap is larger at the bottom of the door, then the two mid mounts just behind the seats are the ones to deal with first. Shimming them up slightly (or at least one side if the other door opening is fine?) should widen the gap at the top.

Are the body mount insulators old and sagged, or have they been replaced?
If they are old and questionable you can't even consider aligning body parts until they're replaced. If they are new, then you can tweak them to suit.
In this case, tweaking could be adding body shims, or perhaps even just tightening the rear-most mounts more than the mid mounts. You can only squeeze them so tight of course, but you can gain at least an additional 1/8" of compression this way I'm sure, depending on which type of mounting hardware is used.
With factory hardware, or an inner sleeve that acts as a limiter, you're stuck with adding shims to raise the mounts. If no limitations, then you can compress them slightly.

Hope that helps get you started anyway.
Are both sides the same?

Paul

Thanks for the help Paul! I think I welded the rockers in right. I lined them to the rear quarter and the original front fenders. This is my first build so I may have jumped the gun on welding them in without doors on. I think I will set the hard top on to get a better understanding of how the windshield frame is actually sitting.
Both sides are basically the same but I do seem to have more of a gap at the bottom of the door on the driver side. I might have to address this but shouldn’t be too bad. I’m not sure exactly what you mean by body mount insulators? All my bushing are new. Im just trying to make sure I don’t need to cut anything, move it and re weld it after I’ve done all paint ant primer.

 

[widowmaker77]

As mentioned, body bushings and spacers may help. I recently replaced bushings, and added two spacers to correct driver door gaps using this chart. I now have perfect gap on fifty year old body.

Thanks! I have this chart to go by. I’ve been trying to get the panels aligned as best as possible before doing any body shimming. I also have another cart that’s supposed to be the original measurements from the assembly line from Ford. If I could post pictures I would share it here so I could get some feedback as to where it’s really what what does specifications were.

 

[widowmaker77]

Well we figured out SOME of the issue. The rain gutters on the side of the Dennis carpenter windshield frame were bent forward about an 1/8 of an inch. We measured off of my original 77 frame and you can slide apiece of 1/4 bar stock in between the gutter and frame and on the new 66 windshield frame it wouldn’t even begin to go in between. Once we massaged it some it did close the gaps somewhat. I removed the old gaskets off the 77 and stuck them on the new frame and I don’t see that there will be any issue whit it sealing. However I will attempt to get them closer when doin final assembly

 

[DirtDonk]

This is my first build so I may have jumped the gun on welding them in without doors on.

You should be ok. The door openings are basically square, so as long as they're large enough without being too large, but are square with the rocker panel, or capable of squaring up with the rocker, your door adjustments should work.

I think I will set the hard top on to get a better understanding of how the windshield frame is actually sitting.

The frame is so flexible it needs to be held in place. As long as the doors are correct as they were from the factory, the angle of the windshield frame just parallels the angle of the door window frame.
So instead of using the windshield to cue the door angles, you set the door angles to the door opening and then the windshield frame angle to the door.

Both sides are basically the same but I do seem to have more of a gap at the bottom of the door on the driver side. I might have to address this but shouldn’t be too bad.

That would seem to indicate more shimmage on the driver's side. You don't have to shim equally per side. Just shim per the door opening to correct any misalignment.
Most of our Broncos that had shims, had unequal numbers of them. More on one side than the other, or in most cases none at all on one side.

’m not sure exactly what you mean by body mount insulators? All my bushing are new.

That's what I meant. I should have used bushing instead. But the words "insulator" and "cushion" are used in factory books that I've seen in the past, where "bushing" is the most common word we tend to use out here. But I try to stay away from using the word "mount" because that would normally be used for the metal perches mounted to the frame.
Bushing works.

Im just trying to make sure I don’t need to cut anything, move it and re weld it after I’ve done all paint ant primer.

Would be a bummer. But for now it sounds like you're good to go with just shimming.

I’ve been trying to get the panels aligned as best as possible before doing any body shimming. I also have another cart that’s supposed to be the original measurements from the assembly line from Ford.

Get the door openings square before you waste any time trying to adjust things. The shimming IS the adjustment procedure that comes first. Then all else is based from that, unless there is some issue with the body.

A sheet from the factory? That would be a very cool bit of history. Let us check it out!
But once you have changed body bushings and have welded in new rocker panels, any of that old info could have become out of date. Maybe not, but at least keep it in mind that needs might have changed.

If I could post pictures I would share it here so I could get some feedback as to where it’s really what what does specifications were.

You can use the Garage and Gallery functions up in your User CP, or you can host images remotely on a site like SuperMotors (or what PhotoBucket used to be to many) or to upload directly from your device to the discussion you need to become a contributor for 12 bucks a year. Well worth it if you're a picture heavy type like some of us!
And we love pics!

Paul

 

[widowmaker77]

Thanks for the help! I will try to upload these pics I have. I’m sure you guys have seen them before but someone may not.