Hoss Bronco Build - 1972 Modern Wheeler

[nvrstuk]

That makes sense Steve. I haven't worried about it but thought I'd bring the temp up 40 degrees from an internal temp of 100 on an 85 deg day and see how things go from there. Sounds like a blower on a day with temps below 25deg or so.

 

[hossbronco]

I went to a salvage yard on Friday and pulled my 4x4x2 donor box from a 1986 F-250.

@nvrstuk on your build page you said that Redhead built your 4x4x2 box, and that they installed oversized recirc balls. You mentioned having it rebuilt in Texas, not by the shop that has a "terrible reputation." I have a few questions for you.

I'm in Texas, and PSC is in driving distance. Last year I asked if they'd do my 4x4x2 conversion and they said yes, but later in the year they said they won't do it anymore. WTO will still do it, but when I called to ask if they install oversized recirc balls the guy on the phone was very rude to me and said they do it right and he didn't have time to answer my questions.

The questions I have are:
1. Which shop in Texas has a terrible reputation?
2. Is there a shop you recommend doing the work?
3. I'm thinking that I'll be installing this in a 4x4x2 configuration and later putting it back to normal when I stretch my front axle. Do I still keep the oversized recirc balls when it goes back to normal and where do you recommend I tap the box for the ram so it works in both configurations?

I've considered doing the work myself, but I don't have a drill press at the moment and I'm a little concerned about drilling in the wrong location, as I've seen others do. Also, I'm not really sure what size recirc balls to purchase. Thanks for your help!

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

I went to a salvage yard on Friday and pulled my 4x4x2 donor box from a 1986 F-250.

@nvrstuk on your build page you said that Redhead built your 4x4x2 box, and that they installed oversized recirc balls. You mentioned having it rebuilt in Texas, not by the shop that has a "terrible reputation." I have a few questions for you.

I'm in Texas, and PSC is in driving distance. Last year I asked if they'd do my 4x4x2 conversion and they said yes, but later in the year they said they won't do it anymore. WTO will still do it, but when I called to ask if they install oversized recirc balls the guy on the phone was very rude to me and said they do it right and he didn't have time to answer my questions.

The questions I have are:
1. Which shop in Texas has a terrible reputation?
2. Is there a shop you recommend doing the work?
3. I'm thinking that I'll be installing this in a 4x4x2 configuration and later putting it back to normal when I stretch my front axle. Do I still keep the oversized recirc balls when it goes back to normal and where do you recommend I tap the box for the ram so it works in both configurations?

I've considered doing the work myself, but I don't have a drill press at the moment and I'm a little concerned about drilling in the wrong location, as I've seen others do. Also, I'm not really sure what size recirc balls to purchase. Thanks for your help!

I used WTO. They did it for me but ported the box in terrible locations for an Early bronco. Price increase during my work, terrible packaging, rude customer service, made me feel like an idiot, etc.. Wasn't too thrilled with my experience. Seems clunky too, but haven't tested it.

I dont know the mechanics of where to port the box but I would recommend the inside if possible so you don't have to route around the frame. WTO ported one on the inside and one pointed directly towards the body mount. I will have to get creative about my fittings and maybe trim sheetmetal to accommodate.

 

[hossbronco]

I used WTO. They did it for me but ported the box in terrible locations for an Early bronco. Price increase during my work, terrible packaging, rude customer service, made me feel like an idiot, etc.. Wasn't too thrilled with my experience. Seems clunky too, but haven't tested it.

Thanks for the input. It seems like in the past people have said they did a good job, but I'm glad you've confirmed my first impressions of them. I think I'd rather do it myself than give them my business, especially if they're going to do it wrong. I know I can do it wrong just as good as they can, if not better.

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

Thanks for the input. It seems like in the past people have said they did a good job, but I'm glad you've confirmed my first impressions of them. I think I'd rather do it myself than give them my business, especially if they're going to do it wrong. I know I can do it wrong just as good as they can, if not better.

added a little more to my initial response, fyi

yes very true! I ended up getting a PSC ram too so I wasted my money getting their whole kit. I love my 4 turn redhead box and wish I sent mine there instead but I dont recall if they do 4x4x2 conversions. I chose WTO to try to save a few $$. mistake!

 

[hossbronco]

I just got off the phone with RedHead. They seemed very willing to do this and said that custom sizing the recirc balls to remove the play is their specialty. They also said they already have everything they need and can just charge me a core charge until I send in my box. That doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. I may just go that route.

 

[nvrstuk]

I spent waaaaay too much $ getting a respectable build on my 4x4x4 box.

Sent it to a place (Redneck??) in TX (not Josh, the thief) but I got it back and it wasn't any tighter.

Fought slop for a year and drove over to Redhead in Auburn. They took my buddy and I on a tour and when I got it back they had done it right.

Also, when they had it apart I said tap it. they did in the only place they will do to wall castings being thin in some areas and being a large outfit they don't want come-backs. It is not conducive to EB's since our tires hit the box there.]

I will get you pics of mine and it works fine. Most guys tap both ports within an inch or so of each other close to the input shaft. My friend "Rocknhorse" (probably spelled it wrong again). One of mine is there and the other is close to the part of the box that touches the grill but on the pass side. Works great for me.

I believe Josh was/is being "looked at" by the Attorney General in TX for all the problems he caused. This was just told to me by a close friend who spent months trying to get his 4x4x4 box back from him. It started leaking within a year from the front input shaft.

 

[nvrstuk]

I just got off the phone with RedHead. They seemed very willing to do this and said that custom sizing the recirc balls to remove the play is their specialty. They also said they already have everything they need and can just charge me a core charge until I send in my box. That doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. I may just go that route.

SIMPLE?? What's that? Jump on it! (glad you called). They are good. My buddy who went on the tour with me owned an independant shop and he never had a return or issue using Redhead for 20+ yrs

 

[hossbronco]

The box is here. It looks to be in good shape. I’ll let y’all know how the steering feels once I finally get on the road.

 

[hossbronco]

The dry sump and Holley front cover make a huge difference!

 

[nvrstuk]

Looking good. Q-

Pic #1 has a regular pan and pics #4 & #5 have the dry sump correct? I mean they are both in there so just clarification. Where are you mounting the remote filter? Wish I could see the pics better/larger.

That dry sump would really let you drop slam that engine.

Can you get me a measurement? From the block to trans mounting surface to the front of the waterpump where the fan would mount?? thanks


Looks like it's going to fit nicely!

 

[hossbronco]

Yes, that’s correct. I was trying to show the difference, but I don’t have a great “before” photo. I put a couple of “after” photos below. Hopefully this format is easier to see.

By my measurements, the block is 21-7/8” back to front (transmission mounting surface, excluding the spacer plate, to front cover mounting surface). The Holley front cover is 6-13/16” from mounting surface to end of water pump. You can’t mount a fan on this front cover. The stock front cover is 7-3/8”. You can mount a fan on that front cover.

The original oil pan is rough 8” from the block to the bottom of the pan, and very wide. The new dry sump pan is 1.7”.

I don’t know where I’m going to mount the oil tank. It’s going to take up a lot of space. It will probably end up in the front passenger side corner, but I’m worried about clearing the 40” tires. I think it will be 9” diameter. I’d consider a taller 6” tank against the firewall, but the exhaust will probably be in the way, so I may put the batteries there instead. As for the filter, I’m not sure yet. I’m thinking I’ll put an oil cooler in the passenger side core support, so probably somewhere nearby. I think I’ll probably install a thermal bypass for the cooler. Things are going to be tight.

 

[nvrstuk]

I can see those! thanks for the numbers too.

How about moving the battery to the back and using that space for the tank???

Aftermarket companies are going to make this a "swappable" engine for Ford. Coyote is so limited because of it's size and also it's power levels. Nice to have 150 extra cubes for higher torque levels down low.

Bronco engine compartments are tight...

 

[hossbronco]

I’ve recently been making some good headway on the project, and I’m hoping to keep the momentum going. I’ve made a commitment to do something every day and it is definitely helping.

Recently, I’ve been trying to finish up the Godzilla. I replaced the fuel rails with billet fuel rails and I have a set of Swiftek valve covers on the way. The larger bodied 270 amp alternator I’m using just fits in front of the left (driver’s side) head with the Holley front cover and brackets. The Holley system was designed for a smaller alternator, but it just works with the stock valve covers. I test fit it with the Indy Power Products valve covers, and those would need to be trimmed slightly to make it work.

The Holley front cover doesn’t work with the larger-bodied PSC CBR power steering pump I have, but I think I can make it work by clearance the front cover and either re-drilling bolt holes or redesigning the mounting bracket. It’s very close to fitting, but the body of the pump is just a little too wide.

I’ve installed the PAC valve springs and taken out the OEM lifters and plastic trays. I’m currently modifying the VCT assembly. Then it’s on to the cam swap and installing the new lifters.

 

[hossbronco]

I’d love to install 4032 forged pistons at this point in the project, along with forged rods, but I don’t think any of the more reputable manufacturers offer them. As I intend to put a lot of miles on this, I’m going to steer clear of the 2618 pistons. I think the stock pistons are pretty solid, but I hope this high performance tune doesn’t get me with detonation. I don’t plan on pushing beyond 6200 rpm or installing boost, so I think I’m going to roll with the stock hypereutectic pistons for now.

 

[nvrstuk]

You are getting ton of little & big issues worked out!! Keep at it as it's going to be a great set up!



It's the mid rpm detonation that I'd be concerned about.

When I had to "rebuild" my 15k mile engine the compression from smoothing out the heads & decking the block & now I need to pull mid rpm cruising timing. B4 I was fine on 92 octane but not now.

That's usually where detonation occurs from street build engines.

 

[hossbronco]

You are getting ton of little & big issues worked out!! Keep at it as it's going to be a great set up!



It's the mid rpm detonation that I'd be concerned about.

When I had to "rebuild" my 15k mile engine the compression from smoothing out the heads & decking the block & now I need to pull mid rpm cruising timing. B4 I was fine on 92 octane but not now.

That's usually where detonation occurs from street build engines.

Weren’t yours 4032 pistons? Would you run them again? With OBR I have the option of a 93 octane tune and an 87 octane tune. I’m generally a go big or go home guy, but I do worry some day either someone will put the wrong fuel in it, the fuel won’t meet spec, or I’ll be stuck out in the sticks with 91 octane and no octane booster. I’m cautiously headed down the 93 octane path, but I’m hoping someone develops the 4032 pistons before I break my engine in.

 

[nvrstuk]

I run 4032 alloy Mahle. Much tighter piston to wall clearance. Mahle told me that 1,000 hp is no issue but with reserved tune but OK with boost & to some degree. I am at .0025" piston to wall.

2618 are noisy & expand much more and rattle at every startup but are tough as heck.

Agreed, I'd go 4032 if you can down the road but clearance issues are critical go conservative tune but that's me & I love hp but

My block was bored for 2618 but had 4032 pistons and ... the rest is history...

I tried several stations in Moab the past 2 wks & couldn't find 92 octane, only 91. I could hear it and had trouble on the long hills on the highway going to trails which was never an issue before. I did not want to add booster- what a royal pita for all the driving I do.

 

[DirtDonk]

True, but a little bottle of booster in the bag-o-goodies, for those occasions when you know you’re gonna be on a long highway pull under load, might be good for your stress levels.
Might even be able to get through at least half the trip without being reminded of the big piston debacle of yore.
After all, you’re too young for gray hair!

 

[hossbronco]

I’m surprised the 91 octane wasn’t good enough up in the mountains. The elevation supposedly makes a difference.

I think I’ll just always carry some octane booster for an emergency, but then again maybe I just follow Brian’s advice, go with the 87 octane tune, and live worry-free. I have some time to make this decision because the controller will be one of the last things I buy.