Bad brand new spicer ball joint or normal?

[Got4wd]

Putting 44 back together. Is spicer just crap now or is this normal? It’s the lower and not in the tapered cone yet so it will get sucked tighter. I don’t want to put these in and have take them back out. Have one side in but seem loose. Bought from bronco graveyard not Amazon. Thoughts.

 

[DirtDonk]

Wow! Just wow…
I’ve never seen any brand of ball joint that loose when brand new. Maybe it’s “normal and acceptable” in today’s world, but not as far as I’m concerned!
In my experience, a brand new ball and socket joint always seems to have been so tight you couldn’t move them by hand. Much less up and down that huge amount!
So no, I would certainly send those videos to Jeffs and ask them. Not their fault certainly, as they can’t inspect every part in every factory box.
They look too clean to have been returned after being used.
Are all four like that?

 

[serial car restorer]

I haven't installed any balljoints in a Spicer axle for over 25 years, but my memory also thinks that's not normal at all. Might be worth getting them from a local parts house (NAPA, O'Reilly's, etc.) so you can check them before accepting them.

 

[Got4wd]

Wow! Just wow…
I’ve never seen any brand of ball joint that loose when brand new. Maybe it’s “normal and acceptable” in today’s world, but not as far as I’m concerned!
In my experience, a brand new ball and socket joint always seems to have been so tight you couldn’t move them by hand. Much less up and down that huge amount!
So no, I would certainly send those videos to Jeffs and ask them. Not their fault certainly, as they can’t inspect every part in every factory box.
They look too clean to have been returned after being used.
Are all four like that?

All 4 have a ton of play like in the second video. The lower one has the most but they seem stupid loose. Boxes were sealed.

 

[JB Fab]

Wow, I've never seen that!

 

[serial car restorer]

Do the boxes have a manufacturer's name or part number on them?

 

[Got4wd]

I am pretty disappointed in bronco graveyard. I was treated very unprofessionally when I called about my issue. He wanted nothing to do with my issue or help. I hung up. I will wait for a response from my original email sent on Friday.

Boxes were sealed and made in Canada. Part number 706116x

 

[Got4wd]

Box

 

[Apogee]

FWIW, industrial cloning is a modern day problem in the auto parts industry, and is why some manufacturers are going towards holographic labels and online fraud sites and things like that for customers to verify the authenticity of any given part. It sucks, but it's reality. That said, those ball joints are absolutely shot, and don't appear to have even been installed, let alone run, so definitely a manufacturing issue. There should be zero play by hand in a new ball joint in my experience.

 

[Got4wd]

My only thought is either these are knock off ball joints or their quality has really gone down hill. I read on Amazon that this was an issue, but I don’t buy parts from amazon. Too many counterfeit parts I have seen through the years. Toyota oem oil filters and spark plugs, I have seen ruin motors. I looked at the boxes and said that’s not Toyota packaging. Glad it wasn’t my engine.

I am either going to order Mevotech or Napa premium blue boot ones. Still nothing from bronco graveyard……

 

[Apogee]

FWIW, I've been messing around with the blue boots from Napa on my build, and they're great quality, easy installation/setup, etc. I'm still installing and uninstalling them a bunch during mock-up for other things (F150 HP D44 front axle swap), so they've been in and out a few (dozen) times, but they're nice parts.

 

[Got4wd]

FWIW, I've been messing around with the blue boots from Napa on my build, and they're great quality, easy installation/setup, etc. I'm still installing and uninstalling them a bunch during mock-up for other things (F150 HP D44 front axle swap), so they've been in and out a few (dozen) times, but they're nice parts.

Are they knurled?

 

[Apogee]

Are they knurled?

Yes, they were when I bought them a couple of years ago. That said, I haven't checked to see if Napa still offer their "premium" line of ball joints. If I were buying them now, I might try the Mevotech TTX joints, mostly just because I like trying new things.

 

[toddz69]

Napa still sells the blue boot units - they were always pricey from them and still are. They also sell the Mevotech TTX joints.

I have 2 full sets of blue boot ball joints squirreled away in my spares collection. Years ago, they were sold as a Raybestos product, then it switched to AC Delco and now only Napa has them.

Todd Z.

 

[jamesroney]

snip... There should be zero play by hand in a new ball joint in my experience.

This is 100% true for Early Broncos. But keep in mind that the upper ball joints in newer axles are not ball joints. They are just called "ball joints" when they don't even have a ball. They are actually sliding joints, or cylindrical joints. It's just a pin with a hat. These will slide up to 1/8 inch axially quite easily. And they spin super easy. You can drive yourself crazy trying to keep them from spinning on the taper.

Here's a cutaway pic of a factory sliding upper ball joint from Moog. Lots of Wranglers and Ram trucks get "ball joint deleted" as well.
AGAIN, not applicable to the open knuckle D44 from 71-79. Apologies to @toddz69 for my 2.5 year delay in responding to your post in the other thread. When I leave for vacation, I don't always catch back up.

 

[chuddy]

I like buying from Rockauto. Most of their distributors have been sitting on this inventory for a million years so it's cheap and "old school quality". For example, when I buy u-joints, they always come in cardboard boxes that are falling apart and look like they were printed in 1979. Perfect.

 

[steelworker77]

Well that figures. I have a full set sitting on my shelf I was going to stick in next week. I installed some moogs earlier this year but the bottoms lasted about 7500 miles before showing a good about of play.

Checking out my local napa. Anyone know the difference between the green booted balljoints vs the blue ones. The green ones are about 120$ a pc vs the 67$ a pc for the blues far as uppers. Says something about easier install.


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NCP2601343

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TTXTXMS50569

 

[Apogee]

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TTXTXMS50569

Like I said in my post above, I would like to try the MevoTech TTX joints, but I'm totally happy with the fit and quality of the blue-boot Napa joints. That said, I would not buy MevoTech joints from Napa, as they have something like a 300% markup on them, and you can get them through RockAuto ($46.79), Summit Racing ($66.99), etc for around $50 for the part number you noted.

I don't know anything about "easier install"...sounds made up to me since they all pretty much install the same way.

 

[jamesroney]

Had a friend send me this link after I posted. Sure enough, someone has invented an expensive solution to a problem that shouldn't need fixing... www.americanironoffroad.com A ball joint delete kit that uses a spherical ball. So it's a ball joint delete that doesn't delete the ball.

I don't usually recommend watching drivel on YouTube...so don't watch these.

It is in every way inferior to a properly installed and pre-loaded factory ball joint. But if you do break a u-joint ear, it might keep the ball joint from being ejected. At the expense of the knuckle. I really hate suspension lingo. King pins that aren't king pins, ball joints that aren't balls, delete kits that don't delete, sway bars that are anti-sway, shock absorbers that induce shock, drag links that don't drag... It's absurd.

The MevoTech TTX joint recommended by @Apogee uses a sintered socket, and that might bring some wear enhancement. It would be interesting to see how long they last. Looks like NAPA is reselling the TTX joint with the green boot.

@steelworker77 Can you tell me how you pre-loaded the upper ball on your install? Every Moog lower ball joint in an EB should be good for 50,000 miles. Unless you've got offset wheels, or running bigger than 35's?

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, all the years of watching discussions about ball joint wear with only a few miles on them was kind of disconcerting. The originals in my 71 lasted well over 100,000 miles, and weren’t really all that worn when I replaced them. Just did it because I was doing the U joints and disc brake conversion.
In fact, I think I still have the originals in boxes somewhere.