Should i get EFI?

[ntsqd]

OP was asking IF he should go EFI and based on the following comments I was suggesting that the TBI was the best fit. Not a Howell version, seems like it kind of locks you in, certainly NOT one of the old Holley TBI kits, not one of the gee-whiz-bang latest fad systems that don't seem to be built with long term durability in mind, just a re-chipped GM TBI. Can think of the TBI as either a really dumb EFI or a really smart carb.

Should the ECU fail the chip could be moved to a new ECU. Should the chip fail a stock chip would get him home. There are very few sensors involved that are actually needed for the TBI to work. Many fewer than an SEFI. A few spare parts would get it home with little drama.

If a Mega/MicroSquirt fails when the boonies, what do you do then?

I am offering what I think is the best fit to what the OP wants to do and the apparent skill level, NOT my install which I think is the best possible answer ever and that everyone else should adopt regardless of what they're trying to do.

 

[dieselfarmer]

I have tried the aftermarket EFI kits (Edelbrock E-street, Fi-tech and Sniper 1) and honestly prefer my carbs over all of those. In 50 years of driving with carbs, never has a carburetor left me completely stranded. Not to say I never had issues (running rich, lean, crappy etc.) but the carb always got me home.
That's why my aftermarket throttle bodies sit on my shelf of shame and my small Holly sits on my 302 currently.

The aftermarket throttle bodies have their issues. Tons of threads just on this site on all of the brands!
They work great for some, not so great for others. Support??? Well some have had great experiences and some have not.

The Pro-Flow 4 looks interesting and haven't heard too many bad things. Cost would be a factor for me though but I'm old school. This is my hobby and my carb runs just fine

If I were to go EFI, it would be original stock explorer setup. It's the most work but the only one I've seen that no one has really complained about.

Whatever you decide, the folks on this site will help you get through any problems you may have!

Well that's my 2 cents (and it's worth exactly that)

The explorer efi or fox mustang efi is very reliable once you get it fully installed and operational. Efi is much more complex to install, and a carburetor is much more simple to maintain. Personally, I like the explorer or Mustang EFI systems because they are very reliable and you can get parts almost any Auto parts store. However, if I keep an Explorer system for another 20 years, how easy will be to get parts at that time?!

 

[73azbronco]

so has anyone built an emulator for an 9l type ECM?

 

[DirtDonk]

Sort of…
It’s called the Pimp-X from Stinger Performance. But since it’s a mega squirt inside of Ford case, I suppose you could argue that mega squirt is the emulator.
However, they do go to the trouble of putting it in the Ford containment, with all the Ford compatibility and making sure that it fits the standard Ford connector still.
Just that it’s tuned and tunable. And sophisticated enough to run transmissions if needed, different coil setups if needed, and probably other things as well.

 

[DirtDonk]

Or am I misunderstanding, and in this case the word “emulator“ is referring to some other aspect?
Sorry if I wasn’t catching the gist.

 

[73azbronco]

Nope you nailed it.

 

[EFI Guy]

An emulator would be something that overrides the factory ROM in the PCM and allows changes on the fly. This is what the Quarterhorse and Tweecer RT do and is what enables someone like me to remote in and provide "consulting" to people that want to tune their own rigs. The hardware in the PCM stays the same the emulator just intercepts code between the processor and the ROM. A chip does the same thing but does not allow changes on the fly, it is just a ROM that gets used instead of the factory ROM.

Mega Squirt is more of a standalone system. The hardware and software code are very different from OEM. But if you put MS hardware on a custom board you can make it plug and play with EEC-IV which is what PimpX is. It can use the stock Ford sensors, injectors, etc... Generally, it's used in speed density mode, but I'm told MAF is possible. I looked hard into MS in the early days and it left a lot to be desired then, but it has come a long way now.

Since I can make my own PC boards I looked into what it would take to make a MS plug and play for the Explorer harness, but the final cost was going to be 5 or 6 times that of just running an emulator. Then you also have to hope it would be as reliable as the OEM, having to warranty them would put you in the hole quickly.

 

[pcf_mark]

Some great recommendations on this but OP what do you really want? It sounds like quick easy cold starts. A good carb person and set you up for that and save a lot of money and effort. If you go EFI the minimum base for me is port injection with ignition control. Anything less is not a big enough improvement to be worth the effort in my opinion. FITech, Sniper, Howell are still using relatively low pressure injectors and the original intake compromises. Using a Ford based modern EFI gets you thousands of hours of engineering built in - more than any aftermarket EFI.

 

[76YETI]

I have an Elderbrock carb on mine with in-tank electric fuel pump. Turn key on, pump gas pedal once, fires right up. I've had several people comment no way would they go to fuel injection. I've had the same thoughts, we all get in the mode of "upgrade" to "upgrade"... I just hear to many stories on both sides of the fence and meanwhile, the carb is running great.....Tough decision.

 

[ntsqd]

I see that happening a lot. Folks on the upgrade treadmill and they end up with something they didn't want because they just got carried away.

For me the biggest two advantages of EFI, even a lowly TBI, over a carb is that I don't need to tune them and my elevation can change from sea level to 12,000' in ~5 hours of driving. I rarely go that high, but it's common for me to leave home at sea level and getting to where I'm going to go over 7,000' just getting there. Depending on where I'm going, 8,000'-10,000' is somewhat common. I'm going somewhere to see and do things, not work on the carb. BT, DT with the dune buggy and I was looking into EFI for it right up to when I sold it.

If my elevation rarely changed more than a couple thousand feet I'd probably have a harder time justifying EFI except for one thing. Several EB EFI converts have mentioned that once they had gone EFI that their cooling system suddenly was enough. Prior to the EFI conversion it was always a question mark if the engine would run hot or not. Better fuel control resulted in a more consistent operating temperature.

 

[73azbronco]

minimum efi buy-in $2,000, if you do it.

 

[ntsqd]

Disagree, one of my TBI systems cost me $100 for everything, from a JY. You guys are just determined to over-complicate something that doesn't need to be over-complicated.

 

[Madgyver]

I have a Speed Density set-up and a mass air set. Never got around to installing them. Carbs just ran good for me.
I think it's more of the anxiety associated with EFI if it goes down while we are in remote areas on our island. I have a lot more confidence in myself that I can get off the trails if ever having issues while running a carb.
No reliable EFI tuners here in our area that I could trust to come out where we are at when stuck out on the forbidden trails.

another thing is my cam choices, at idle.

 

[EFI Guy]

minimum efi buy-in $2,000, if you do it.

I've had a couple of people claim to make money on the swap by the time they were done parting out their donor Explorer. Obviously, not everyone has the time or space to do that though.

No reliable EFI tuners here in our area that I could trust to come out where we our at.

You could always DIY the tuning with a little bit of remote "consulting". Assuming you have pretty decent internet on the island.


There was once a time when the EFI Guy was very Anti-EFI. I had the same attitude about the simplicity of carbs and that cars just don't need a fricking computer. It was in the mid 90's and my first Bronco was an 84 with a 300 I-6 and a single BBL Weber. It might be the simplest carb out there but I got pretty good at rebuilding it on the trail. Most of the time it was just the fuel sloshing that would tweak the float level but I got so good at it that I could take it apart and reset the float just by eye and be back up and running in about 10 minutes.

Unfortunately, it was like a ritual that I had to do at least once every wheeling trip. I had the tools in the glove box at all times.

Eventually, a family friend offered me their 85 Bronco for $300 so I bought it. It was the first year of fuel injection and had died on them. They couldn't figure it out and gave it to me for scrap price. Since it was EFI I had zero intentions of fixing it, I was just going to use it as a parts vehicle for my 84.

My dad was big into books and got me the Probst book on EFI. I read it all in one night. He did such a good job of explaining how the system worked that all of my fears about EFI were gone. I rented a fuel pressure tester from the parts store and went to work. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out that it had a bad FPR. I spent 30 bucks on the FPR and under a hundred in fresh fluids and tune up parts.

When I took that thing wheeling for the first time I was so impressed with how it handled the angles and bouncing around and the extreme altitude that I was hooked. I sold the 84 and kept the EFI 85. I don't think I ever put another dollar into that rig except for oil changes and brakes. It was also nice to no longer be the trail tampon.

 

[toddz69]

I've had a couple of people claim to make money on the swap by the time they were done parting out their donor Explorer. Obviously, not everyone has the time or space to do that though.



You could always DIY the tuning with a little bit of remote "consulting". Assuming you have pretty decent internet on the island.


There was once a time when the EFI Guy was very Anti-EFI. I had the same attitude about the simplicity of carbs and that cars just don't need a fricking computer. It was in the mid 90's and my first Bronco was an 84 with a 300 I-6 and a single BBL Weber. It might be the simplest carb out there but I got pretty good at rebuilding it on the trail. Most of the time it was just the fuel sloshing that would tweak the float level but I got so good at it that I could take it apart and reset the float just by eye and be back up and running in about 10 minutes.

Unfortunately, it was like a ritual that I had to do at least once every wheeling trip. I had the tools in the glove box at all times.

Eventually, a family friend offered me their 85 Bronco for $300 so I bought it. It was the first year of fuel injection and had died on them. They couldn't figure it out and gave it to me for scrap price. Since it was EFI I had zero intentions of fixing it, I was just going to use it as a parts vehicle for my 84.

My dad was big into books and got me the Probst book on EFI. I read it all in one night. He did such a good job of explaining how the system worked that all of my fears about EFI were gone. I rented a fuel pressure tester from the parts store and went to work. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out that it had a bad FPR. I spent 30 bucks on the FPR and under a hundred in fresh fluids and tune up parts.

When I took that thing wheeling for the first time I was so impressed with how it handled the angles and bouncing around and the extreme altitude that I was hooked. I sold the 84 and kept the EFI 85. I don't think I ever put another dollar into that rig except for oil changes and brakes. It was also nice to no longer be the trail tampon.

That's a great story, Garry! I had never heard your "Damascus Road" experience .

Todd Z.

 

[hsach]

That's a great story, Garry! I had never heard your "Damascus Road" experience .

Todd Z.

My favorite part of the story, thanks for the laugh! "It was also nice to no longer be the trail tampon."

 

[Johnnyb]

It was in the mid 90's and my first Bronco was an 84 with a 300 I-6 and a single BBL Weber. It might be the simplest carb out there but I got pretty good at rebuilding it on the trail.

@EFI Guy is exactly right. Everybody who is a carburetor advocate is probably also good at rebuilding them. I recall, at one time I could rebuild an autolight in under a half an hour.
But you get tired of changing the power valve, replacing the accelerator pump and fixing the float / valve all the time.
Fuel injection is one of the most significant advancements in automotive evolution along with:

1. Hydraulic brakes
2. Overhead valves
3. Disc brakes
4. More than three speeds in a transmison

-JB

 

[Madgyver]

I remember it was you EFI guy that said because of my cam choices at idle the efi would have difficulty reading the motor.
With that I decided to stay with a carb.
Maybe if I had a stock low mileage take-out efi motor when I don't make any changes to the components, I'll run efi. but it will be stock. I just want different.

stock maybe reliable but also can be boring. I just need to learn more about EFI.

You could always DIY the tuning with a little bit of remote "consulting". Assuming you have pretty decent internet on the island.

 

[EFI Guy]

I remember it was you EFI guy that said because of my cam choices at idle the efi would have difficulty reading the motor.

Yup. I don't think I ever knew your exact cam specs but in general the lumpier the cam the harder it is to make it idle. Often you can increase idle speed and tune to make it happy. In extreme cases, you can force open loop at idle and tune it with a vacuum gauge. That means no o2 feedback to constantly correct fuel at idle but it does work again off idle.
Anything is doable, just not necessarily quick and easy.