LS3/6L80e Engine Swap into my 73

[WPS 73 Bronco]

No click with the key. Just a dead short.

 

[Oldtimer]

Need to trace the RD/BL wire from ignition switch to the starter relay.
Note: connector C-222 MAY be the jumper connector that allows addition of neutral saftey switch on automatic transmission. I think it is located on firewall near the driver side valve cover.

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

This wiring has been left out, and has no connection go to it. Not sure what it is. It’s in the area your mentioning.

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

I had a previous thread questioning these wires. Here are a few responses from DD in that thread.

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/random-wiring-questions.324008/

Followed by this response.

 

[DirtDonk]

Right in the middle of that picture, just below the single wire with the empty round connector, is the large, long, square, four wire connector that we’ve been hunting for.
Lift it up by hand and see what is sticking in the other side. Notice the black with red tracer wires that I think we can see in the picture. Those are your back up lamps.

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

I have that cluster with nothing connected to it. Looks like two red blue and two red black wires (or black red, or red green?). I clearly see the red blue but the other two have been spray painted so it’s hard to tell.

 

[Oldtimer]

The RD/BL wires need to be connected to complete circuit from ignition switch to starter relay. I suspect that if you connect the RD/BK wires together, the backup lights will be on all the time.

 

[DirtDonk]

What will you be using for a back up lamp switch?

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

Progress, but I’m not there yet. As Oldtimer told me, put a jumper between that starter solenoid and the battery and I should get a loud klick. I did, and it does. When I turn the key, no Klick.

So as DD suggested, I put a jumper between the two red/blue wires in connector C222. I did that and all of the sudden I have that same Klick when I turn the key, but nothing happens.

I then put the Holley neutral safety switch wire in the jumper circuit. Still got the klick, but nothing else.

So I’m clearly getting the red/blue signal to the starter solenoid, but no crank signal (power) is going to the starter.

In a wire diagram, it shows the brown wire is connected to the c222 connection via The B connector. Is that my missing link?

 

[DirtDonk]

No. The brown wire has nothing to do with the starter circuit working. It’s there strictly to apply additional current to the coil when starting, and to compensate for an ignition switch that goes partially dead when you turn it too far past the start position.
You either have a defective starter relay, a defective starter cable, a defective starter, or insufficient ground to the engine.

Check the ground cable first. Make sure it’s good and tight and terminated somewhere as close to the starter as is convenient.
Check the starter circuit itself, by doing another jumper test.
This time, instead of jumping from the Battery side to the small red with blue wire terminal, you’ll need a more robust set up and jumper from the battery side to the starter side studs of the starter relay.
Jumper cables are very convenient for this, but so are metal handles of large pliers or similar tools.

As always, make sure the transmission is in neutral or park, and your hands are out of the way of the spinny bits. Don’t be startled if the starter cranks!

What type of starter, and how is it wired?

 

[DirtDonk]

And I’m sure it is, but I’m going to check anyway.
Is the starter relay bolted to the body?
And is the body well grounded to the battery?
Are the bolting surfaces, clean and tight?
Free of paint and rust?

 

[Oldtimer]

One piece at a time.
1)

Progress,
In a wire diagram, it shows the brown wire is connected to the c222 connection via The B connector. Is that my missing link?

The connector you circled is not the C-222 connector in the schematic in post #282.
It is connector C-218 in post #282.

The connector you circled is "B". This is the red connector in post #283 photo.
The Ford engine harness plugs into it, and connects the oil pressure sensor, temp sensor, and coil power leads. The oil and temp wires go to the Ford instrument cluster.

Not wanting to go back thru 15 pages of posts, remind us what you are using to control this LS engine (points, computer)?

2)
On to starter issues.
When the starter relay clunks, you should get 12v on large gauge wire leading to starter.
On a Ford starter, the one wire connection supplies 12v to the starter engaging it with flywheel, and spining the starter motor.
The last time I worked on a GM starter there were two wires connected to the starter.
The large gauge wire supplied CONSTANT 12v to starter.
There was also a small guage wire that energized the solenoid causing the starter to engage the flywheel, AND completing the circuit from the large gauge wire to the starter motor, causing it to spin.

3)

When I turned the key to start the motor, all systems seem to short out and restart. See attached video.

Looking at the video you posted, when turning the key to start, every thing went dark.
This may not be what you called a short out.
All your accesories work when the key is in ON or ACC positions. This is as expected and good.
A known issue with Ford ignition switches (50 years old, or new out of box) is when the switch is turned to START it disconnects the ON/ACC circuits, and kills all power to everything, but the starter circuit.

 

[DirtDonk]

Even though it’s in the title, which I see every time, and even though there’s obviously an unusual fuel rail there at the back of the engine, I’m constantly forgetting that this is an LS swap thread!
Luckily, we are still dealing with Bronco wiring, however, so hopefully I haven’t gotten anything too crazy wrong in my discussions.

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

Thanks again for all the advise and support. I'd be lost without it. As I've said many times, I don't like electrical because I don't seem to get it.

Okay, so with my LS install, I scrapped the GM wiring harness and purchased the Holley Terminator X ECM system. I also purchased a painless universal fuse box to replace the existing Ford one. I then integrated the Bronco wiring. I wired all of the required ford connections into the fuse box, added the Vintage Air wiring, and then added the Holley connections. One of my confusion points was about C222 and the red pigtail that went with it in post 286. Like a dummy, I must have tossed the engine side connector and harness thinking I'd never need it. So I now understand that the red/blue wire needs to complete that circuit on that connector. Once we get the starting issue resolved, I'll come back to the other issues with the rest of that connector and the red one with it that has the brown wire in it.

When I get home tonight I will try DD's suggestion on the jumper between the battery side and the starter side and see if the starter works.

Thanks for the clarity on what I was calling an ignition short. That makes me feel much better. I was having fun visions of pulling my dash apart AGAIN.

I'm sure I need to resolve my neutral safety switch problem. With the holley system I have a yellow wire that is the safety switch wire. How do I eliminate it from the equation? Do I ground it or tie it to a circuit?

 

[DirtDonk]

If it’s just one wire, I’d have to see their instructions to see what they say. Never used one of these kits before.

 

[DirtDonk]

I still have a hard time believing all of you uber-efficient people out there.
People who literally can manage to just throw things away (clearing the clutter) even before they’re finished with the project.
I still have things (ie “crap”) from projects I finished 50 years ago!
I suppose that means I haven’t actually finished the project…

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

We have success!

We should have listened to Yeller on post 268. He said the LS starter has it’s own solenoid and I needed to run a wire form the Ford Red/Blue to the LS starter solenoid. We did that, grounded the Holley neutral safety switch, jumpered the red blue wires in C222.

The rest is history!!

 

[Yeller]

Now to put fuel to it

 

[WPS 73 Bronco]

And there’s more. I got the exhaust installed today. I used the Duff SS dual exhaust as the starter kit. Then took it to a custom muffler shop to finish the install….connecting to the headers and piping around the Atlas TC. It looks sweet.