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1970 Bronco Turned over once now NO POWER to anything

Joined
May 30, 2024
Messages
9
Hey Everyone!

New poster here and working on limited experience.

I have a 1970 with the original 302 that I purchased. Has been running and causing me minimal issues that I have been able to figure out on my own and through other post on here.

The Problem: Went to pull out of the garage today and got turnover and didn’t leave the key in ignition for long enough for her to go. Now I have NO POWER to anything!

So Far: battery tested sat. Battery cables are good some corrosion but nothing excessive.

Potential Problem: I arrived at what I believe is the starter relay “Right Side is battery connection left is starter connection” the yellow wire already has some damaged insulation.

Question: How do I test the connection points around this?

f33b8a02d03f401e9536e4255ac928b7.jpg



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JeepGuy

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Were you able to locate a fuse between the Starter solenoid and the main fuse panel?

On my painless wiring kit, it routes the main power from the positive terminal of your battery to the right side of that solenoid (as you have pictured at your pinky), then through a midi fuse (large fuse) which supply's power to the fuse panel. If you have no power anywhere that is where I would look first. I'm assuming you've already checked the fuses on your fuse block?

Bronco 70 amp plus wiring.jpg


Bronco Less than 70 amp wiring.jpg
 

EPB72

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so if you turn on the headlights do they work??no battery power anywhere start at battery terminal for good connetion } and battery is fully charged test good correct}/ i.d also be using at least a test light,or multimeter for testing, voltage drop test but just testing voltage at certain spots to determine what direction under hood,underdash?? <, but... then id check the starter relay battery side post for good voltage ,, all power goes through that connection point ,, if all good power to dash and ignition ..test for a signal to starter relay on small red/wire at s post when key is in crank position,, if automatic trans wiggle shifter around see if any results,,, the starter relay also needs a good ground at mounting points to inner fender,
 

JeepGuy

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so if you turn on the headlights do they work??no battery power anywhere start at battery terminal for good connetion } and battery is fully charged test good correct}/ i.d also be using at least a test light,or multimeter for testing, voltage drop test but just testing voltage at certain spots to determine what direction under hood,underdash?? <, but... then id check the starter relay battery side post for good voltage ,, all power goes through that connection point ,, if all good power to dash and ignition ..test for a signal to starter relay on small red/wire at s post when key is in crank position,, if automatic trans wiggle shifter around see if any results,,, the starter relay also needs a good ground at mounting points to inner fender,
Great point on the trans. I've had the neutral safety wire fall off and stump me for a couple hours before I learned to secure that wire at all costs.
 

DirtDonk

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OK, no power to anything can only be a couple of things.
First is the fusible link on the larger 10ga black wire from the battery side of the starter relay to the firewall connectors. Not the big battery cable, but the next size down.
Second, and most likely, is a bad battery cable. Can be either positive or negative, but most of the times of experienced this it was the short positive cable.

Easy to test. Get some jumper, cables, or a heavy duty tool with metal handles that you can jumper the left side of the starter relay to the right side.
Make sure the transmission is in neutral, or if an automatic, park.
Jumper the two sides and see if the starter spins.
If yes, then it’s not a battery cable. If no, then it is a battery cable.

Your battery and starter cables look old and small. Like stock size 6 gauge. A little corrosion on the outside could mean a lot on the inside. Or at least a broken connection between the lugs and the cable strands.
The large draw of the starter trying to spin could have broken that weakened connection.

The only other thing that can cause a no power situation is the connection behind the ammeter and the instrument cluster.
There’s a push connector in the large black wire that sometimes gets corroded or loose. If that becomes disconnected or incapable of flowing electricity, all power is gone to the vehicle.
This is where testing the starter relay with the jumper cables will give you a direction.

And a word of caution. Do not throw the old starter relay away!
If it’s bad, fine to toss it out. But if it’s still good, you certainly don’t want to be putting modern crappy parts in its place.
So test before popping it out for a new one.
 

DirtDonk

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This looks like factory original wiring. Is that correct?
If so, there is no fuse in the fuse panel, or in line with the black wire, that can create this problem. None…
Only aftermarket panels with more fuses might have something along these lines.

Also, that yellow wire you mentioned on the “I” post of the starter relay is a faded brown. It does look yellow, but originally it was brown.

How about some more information and pictures about your bronco? A 1970 model would not have come with an automatic transmission, or the wiring for a neutral safety switch. But automatic transmissions can get swapped in. However, here again, nothing in a neutral safety switch circuit will kill power to the vehicle. Only to the starter.
 

DirtDonk

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And I hate to throw good money after bad (even someone else's!) but maybe new battery cables would come in handy at some point.
Do the testing first of course, since if yours are perfectly fine now, there is no reason to change them. But if you do end up with new ones, just get some decent 2ga versions of the correct length. Maybe even tweak them a bit.

By that, I mean make sure that they are short enough to not have to have cable laying around, but not so short that you need to compromise the routing and put them too close to exhaust and any moving parts.
And the tweak I always do to store-bought cables is to take water proof, heat-resistant shrink tubing and place it near the ends where the eyelets are crimped to the cables.
This little inexpensive modification will help them last much longer by keeping moisture and battery acid out of the strands.

Talking about the same type of cable you have now between the relay and the starter. You can see where it's bent sharply at the connection. A little heat shrink there on a new one is good practice.
No "dire need" for 2ga cable. When all is fine, the original size cable is fine. I just like the extra headroom that larger battery/starter cables give you when things start to deteriorate. Such as extended cranking when the engine does not want to start.
Buying 4, or even 2 gauge cable instead, only costs a couple of bucks more per section. Well worth it in my opinion.

All of that talk is of course, only if you need to replace the cables. But the quick testing described previously should let you know if it's time or not.

Paul
 
OP
OP
M
Joined
May 30, 2024
Messages
9
I made a post about my ride in hopes that I can reference it when I ask these sort of questions and to help me track my progress this is it

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/t...nners-journey-with-a-1970-ford-bronco.326925/

I’m actively in the middle of moving so my ability to work on it isn’t as much as I would like. I’ll make a plan to troubleshoot of off everyone’s suggestions and provide updates but to answer some questions for now.

I believe it is the original wiring harness damn sure looks like it. It’s straight cable from the relay to the firewall no fusiblelink or anything like that along the way.

Battery Power Tested and Sat

Battery cables suck I think I’m gonna replace them no matter what. Anyone have a link of cables they have purchased that worked well for them?

I’ll post my troubleshooting plan here and would be happy if y’all took a look at it.

Thanks!


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73azbronco

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so if you turn on the headlights do they work??no battery power anywhere start at battery terminal for good connetion } and battery is fully charged test good correct}/ i.d also be using at least a test light,or multimeter for testing, voltage drop test but just testing voltage at certain spots to determine what direction under hood,underdash?? <, but... then id check the starter relay battery side post for good voltage ,, all power goes through that connection point ,, if all good power to dash and ignition ..test for a signal to starter relay on small red/wire at s post when key is in crank position,, if automatic trans wiggle shifter around see if any results,,, the starter relay also needs a good ground at mounting points to inner fender,
Yeah agree with EPB72, lets start at step one, you say battery is sat, whats that mean? How many volts...
 

DirtDonk

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Not sure what the word is actually supposed to be. Perhaps “Sat” (for Saturday?) or “set” maybe?
But in the first post, they said, the battery had been tested. So at least as far as we know for now, it is good.
Hopefully the test was legit and the battery doesn’t have an intermittent internal problem.
 

JeepGuy

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Sat = Satisfactory I'm guessing... But what do I know.😁

And just for reference here for my own knowledge @DirtDonk If this is an original wiring harness without a midi fuse, wouldn't the wiring diagrams I posted from the painless book still work for the stock routing while just ignoring the inline fuse? Or did the original power not go to a starter solenoid post as shown?
 

DirtDonk

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The Painless book is only an approximation, and then, only for a ‘71 through ’77 model.
There are one or two variations in wire colors, and a few different wire connections.
But perhaps, for the area between the starter rely, battery, and the initial run towards the firewall, it’s a general reference at least.
 

DirtDonk

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Magnolia, there are a couple of things unrelated to your lack of power that I want to point out. But I can do that over in your other thread.
One is pretty important though, so will do so as soon as I can.
 

DirtDonk

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Regarding electrical in general though, and perhaps even a contributor to your current issue, there’s a general practice I like to promote with the 66 through 70 model Broncos.
And that is, with the battery disconnected, reach over to the firewall and disconnect those two rectangular firewall plugs with all the wires going to them.
Passing through each one is 1/2 each of the alternator charge/battery power main wire.
This is the same large gauge black wire that has the connector behind the ammeter, and supplies power to the entire vehicle.
Disconnect the two connectors, clean and scrape them of any rust and inspect for loose connections, or deterioration that could cause any issues.
Clean them up the best you can, apply a little dielectric grease, or whatever non-conducting electrical grease seems appropriate, and then reconnect them.
Make sure the connection is good and snug and tight.
If one of those becomes disconnected (not sure which one) then you could experience the symptoms you’re having.
 
OP
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M
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Battery Voltage >12.5VDc

I took some photos from the starter relay all the way to the ignition switch. Sorry for the intermittent posting I appreciate the help.

What I am planning to do clean connections and dirty fuses. That way I get good contact between everything. And do some minor repairs. I know the wiring harness and everything is rough I want to get power back to the vehicle till I start replacing everything.

Battery voltage
e3b42b49860bd1653d21be9a2811cd47.jpg

Starter solenoid
bdfa04d8c429afdffa9dd3e49d3b5808.jpg

1st mess of wires off starter solenoid. Bottom of photo is down towards headlight.

Should I wrap and stow these loose wires?
f64cca1f59ed4ac795a66d29a248cf93.jpg

Connector following or at least feels like one plan is to cut open tape and investigate.
1c932488efd9a55aa78873dd33b5cb40.jpg

Connectors into the firewall.

f8df138f9d0ed111e87b2587acbd973c.jpg

Fuse box on opposite side of firewall. I tested resistance and all fuses were good (Satisfactory/SAT)
83f89d74a0dab7fc4fe733b5a7d27c4a.jpg

Ignition switch wiring.
355415ae0c68546ccd80d385798f33da.jpg



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DirtDonk

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Thanks for all the pics. I’ll try to address a few things. I see shortly.
Your fuse box definitely needs cleaning. It’s OK to address that at any point because it’s relatively straightforward and doesn’t take much time. However, the fuse box isn’t part of the problem of losing power to everything.
With only five fuses, it has limited scope and no ability to rob power to any of the main circuits.
 

DirtDonk

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I know the wiring harness and everything is rough I want to get power back to the vehicle till I start replacing everything.

Starter solenoid
bdfa04d8c429afdffa9dd3e49d3b5808.jpg
See that small hole just below the starter relay in your picture? That’s the original body ground location. Do you currently have a ground dedicated to a body panel from the battery?
Two things on the battery side of the starter relay.
What is that wire connector that looks like it is just slipped under the battery cable? It’s either orange, or has been wrapped in orange?
Is that connector bolted to the body, or is it just slipped under there? If it’s bolted, that’s not a good place for the battery cable to be rubbing.

And just under the battery cable, you can see a small bare connector. What wire is on that, and is it touching the body?
Carefully loosen the nut and rotate the wires up so you can see what’s going on. Or just remove them completely and check them out.
This could easily be part of the problem.

When I say carefully, sometimes the outer nut can be loosened by itself, but it’s usually a good practice to put a second wrench on the inner hex so that you don’t twist the shaft out if the outer nut is stuck slightly.

This can be done when you’re replacing the battery cable with a new one.
Should I wrap and stow these loose wires?
f64cca1f59ed4ac795a66d29a248cf93.jpg
Yes. Those are your old voltage, regulator, wires, and connector.
Looks like the yellow wire is already capped off, which is good. Or they could’ve been left in the plastic connector and been perfectly safe.
If you’re never planning to have to go back to an externally regulated alternator, then that entire connector can be removed.
Personally, I don’t like to cut those wires off completely because they can be utilized in the future for something.
The yellow wire has constant power, and the red green with red stripe wire has switched power.
Might come in handy someday.
Then again, they look so rough and compromised, that it wouldn’t hurt to just cut them off and tape them up safely out of the way so they don’t touch anything.
Connector following or at least feels like one plan is to cut open tape and investigate.
1c932488efd9a55aa78873dd33b5cb40.jpg
Might not be a bad idea. But I think it can wait for now. Unless the large black wire goes through there?
Connectors into the firewall.

f8df138f9d0ed111e87b2587acbd973c.jpg
That one connector should never be angled like that. Looks like it’s partially disconnected and has been under a lot of tension over its life.
The opening allows moisture and other gunk to get in there. If you haven’t already (and why not?) you should remove those connectors and check inside. Battery disconnected, of course
The same black wire that I’m always on about passes through both of them. If one connector is compromised, that could kill power to the whole vehicle.
Fuse box on opposite side of firewall. I tested resistance and all fuses were good (Satisfactory/SAT)
83f89d74a0dab7fc4fe733b5a7d27c4a.jpg
That’s good, but not good enough. I would still pull them and clean them and try to scrape the contact points clean.
Again, battery disconnected.
And do it soon, because even though it’s not your problem currently, it’s not helping anything to be in that condition.
Ignition switch wiring.
355415ae0c68546ccd80d385798f33da.jpg
Well, obviously, it’s not supposed to look like that! The green with black ACC wire is severely compromised and has been modified with a different ring connector already. The original one was molded on and might even have been a fusible link.
At the very least, loosen than center or not and rotate the wires so they are not in extreme tension like it appears they are.
Replace the ring connector and re-crimp it if it needs it. And I would think it does.
Even though this would also not kill power to the whole vehicle, losing that connection at the black with green striped wire would kill power to all of your ignition switch controlled accessories. Not the ignition system or charging system, but certainly the heater, radio and turn signals and such.
 
OP
OP
M
Joined
May 30, 2024
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Red/orange wire is a ground cable that is running from the bottom of the motor chassis ground point. That ground point has motor-red wire- battery negative lead in that order attached to it.

Also in photo you can see what I believe is the black wire you keep referring to. That black wire runs through the entire wrapped up section to the connectors on the fire wall (all taped together)

The black wire going down is to the alternator.


1ad16aa09afc1154ffd7f69cb526c7bd.jpg


Another shot of wire connection to ground just to left of white cable on alternator
5e797ae04a15afdf19af2d8d7ae5cafe.jpg



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