289 Explorer Serpentine Conversion Pulley

[zimzimma]

I'm in the process of tearing apart the front end of my 289 to put on the explorer front dress. I purchased the wild horses serpentine adapter pulley and my balancer doesn't have a male pilot. The balancer is a Performance Products cheap one but works fine. The pulley I removed has a male pilot that sits in the balancer. I'm not sure what the pulley was off of originally. The original 289 balancer which I still have and checked also had a female pilot. Performance products sells a plastic "spacer" pn 91011 that looks like it sits in the balancer and gives it a male pilot. The balancer has a flat face and the serpentine pulley sits flush on it. But I don't think locating it with three bolts will center it properly. Is the pulley meant for a male pilot? Maybe it doesn't matter and I'm over thinking it? I have not put anything back together yet to see how everything lines up. Just trying to think ahead and make a list of all the little items I still need and buy them all at once to save on shipping.

 

[thegreatjustino]

I don't think locating it with three bolts will center it properly

Why's that? How would the pulley install incorrectly with all three bolts threaded in? If the holes align with or without the male pilot, how would the pilot make any difference?

Most of the aftermarket aluminum v-belt balancer pulleys come with a removable pilot so you can use them with both types of balancers.

 

[jamesroney]

Why's that? How would the pulley install incorrectly with all three bolts threaded in? If the holes align with or without the male pilot, how would the pilot make any difference?

Most of the aftermarket aluminum v-belt balancer pulleys come with a removable pilot so you can use them with both types of balancers.

Because the tolerance on the hub centric pulley bore is +/-.001.

The 3 drilled holes are typically specified at + 1/64" oversize, and then +/- .006 tolerance on top of that.

Some of the aftermarket dampers come with a pilot tool that can be removed after the bolts are tight.
Some of the aftermarket dampers come with a pilot hub that is retained by a large snap ring.

I'm not convinced that .006" matters, but if you spin it fast enough, it will.

 

[Broncobowsher]

1/64 is typical machine work, automotive stuff is usually double that. Correct, you should have an indexing lip. Not sure what the best way of doing that would be.

 

[zimzimma]

Thanks thats what I thought. I'll buy the part from performance products and see if it does what I need it to.

 

[thegreatjustino]

For those of you saying you need the balancing lip, how do you explain the Ford balancers that don't have a provision for the lip?

 

[jamesroney]

For those of you saying you need the balancing lip, how do you explain the Ford balancers that don't have a provision for the lip?

The early damper uses a pulley with an integral lip. That's how I can tell the Mustang 289 pulleys from the Bronco one's at a swap meet. So the early pulleys are an "outie" and the later pulleys are bored thru.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, that's why many (most?) aftermarket pulleys come with either a steel or a plastic ring thingy to use.
If you're using a pulley with a formed lip against the damper as in the aforementioned "outie" you leave the ring off. if your pulley has an "innie" on the other hand, you add the ring.
Ours comes with a steel ring, but if not abused and if the bolts are kept properly tight, the plastic one should suffice.

Paul

 

[thegreatjustino]

The early damper uses a pulley with an integral lip. That's how I can tell the Mustang 289 pulleys from the Bronco one's at a swap meet. So the early pulleys are an "outie" and the later pulleys are bored thru.

Ah, so you're saying either the pulley or the balancer has the lip. No wonder I've had difficulty over the years trying to mix and match pulleys with balancers.

 

[DirtDonk]

Not to mention different offsets, diameters and bolt counts!
Typical Ford methodology it seems.

Paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not to mention different offsets, diameters and bolt counts!
Typical Ford methodology it seems.

Paul

You forgot timing markers in different locations as well. I think it was a '67 mustang that depending on options (A/C, power steering, etc.) you could get 3 different possible locations on a single engine.

 

[jamesroney]

You forgot timing markers in different locations as well. I think it was a '67 mustang that depending on options (A/C, power steering, etc.) you could get 3 different possible locations on a single engine.

I have worked on my fair share of 67 Mustangs. AFAIK, the C-code 2bbl 289 only came with one damper and that one damper had exactly one timing pointer location. When the crank key was at 12:00, and #1 at TDC, the timing pointer was at 2:00 position. I can confirm that some applications used a timing pin for a pointer, and some used a bracket style sheet metal pointer. But the water pump inlet was always on the passenger side, and the timing location was always at 2:00.

Now, the 67 Mustang with the big block WAS a mess, and that oddball oversized AC damper pulley that went over the other pulley required a different timing pointer, and there are at least 3 timing pointers for the FE series, and the Shelby 428 damper might have used a different pointer. But I THINK that the timing locations were generally in the same place. But yeah, FE's would come with HD alternator, PS, AC, and thermactor. There were different pulleys and brackets for every combination. It's like 2^4 combinations.

So I am going to agree that you could get 3 different timing pointers on a single engine, (390) but I will have to do some research for the number of timing LOCATIONS on a 289-2V. (and I'm going to say that the 289-4V High Performance is a different engine) But I'm pretty sure that my timing light aims at the same location and they all use the C5AE-6312-A damper. (which is hub-less)

@DirtDonk What I find more interesting than the things that are different...are the things that are the same. The 1968 Ford Bronco 289 with Thermactor got a different part number C8TE- for the 2 sheave water pump pulley than the Mustang C7OE. Which is funny, because they are dimensionally identical. The 2 groove crank pulley is also different for the car vs Bronco..but of course the C8TE 2 sheave crank pulley has no hub pilot. So it is the same size, but just has the hole bored thru. But the funny thing is that when that same C8TE truck pulley got applied to the 1969 Passenger car 302...it got a different engineering number. Even though it is functionally and dimensionally identical.

It doesn't help that the C5AE water pump pulley looks identical to the C5OE pulley. So you have 3 water pump pulleys that are the same offset, groove, and sheave spec...with 3 part numbers. And that is just plain strange. Someday when I'm old, I'm going to figure out what is different about them. Of course by then, I probably won't care. (...might not even care now.)

 

[4x4man514]

Thanks thats what I thought. I'll buy the part from performance products and see if it does what I need it to.

Yep thTs what you need. I just did the same thing with a pp balancer and wh pulley