302 with 300 HP?

[4x4bronco]

Hello guys wanted to say thanks for all the help with the advice....This is problably been covered before but im only 17 and dont have that much experience or money to spend so I want to get it right the first time getting more for my $$$$ went shopping around for a 5.0 HO motor this weekend and found one for $700 with all the wiring and Computer....then went to a machine shop to go see how much a rebuild would cost.... He told me it would cost me roughly $1000 to rebuild the 5.0..... after talking with the guy he told me I can rebuild my old 302 to reach 300 HP way more than the 5.0 and that it would cost 1300 hundred dollars. Now I did my research and the original 302 for my truck produced 210 HP and the 5.0 HO produced 225 now my question is is it really possible to get my old 302 to 300 hp? and if I do the 300 hp rebulid on my old 302 and add the EFI mass air setup would it be better than newer 5.0 engine EFI setup?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Yes, a 302 can make 300 real HP, but you won't like it.

Since HP is a factor of torque and RPM, and torque is mostly dictated by engine size, to up the HP you must spin it faster. 300 HP at 6000 RPM is no fun when there is no power at idle to drive around town.

Torque is what makes a vehicle fun to drive, HP is for bragging rights.

 

[Devin]

I agree - HP is for bragging rights. I think that you should ditch the plans for a 302 and just go for a 351. Higher torque is good.

 

[ochretoe]

When I was in collage, my brother and I built a 289 that dynoed to 308HP.. That was a long time ago(ove 20 years). I'm sure today its no big deal. What was way harder was getting a c4 to handle it. The trany cost more than the engine. Both held up for about 8 years though. Spend your money on what you want, just make sure you don't throw it away on HP and no torque or you break everything attached. just .02
Steve

 

[4x4bronco]

Yes, a 302 can make 300 real HP, but you won't like it.

Since HP is a factor of torque and RPM, and torque is mostly dictated by engine size, to up the HP you must spin it faster. 300 HP at 6000 RPM is no fun when there is no power at idle to drive around town.

Torque is what makes a vehicle fun to drive, HP is for bragging rights.

So ditch my old 302 and get the newer 5.0? I cant really afford a 351 maybe later down the road....

 

[Duke Nukem]

If I were picking any engine for my bronco it would be a 351W. Like others have said, its going to have more low RPM torque than any 302 or 5.0. With a truck you want low RPM power. Chances are you're not going to be driving your bronco at 100 mph on the freeway, so high RPM horsepower isn't very usable. Try not to get too hung up on horsepower numbers since there are a lot of different pros and cons to different engines.

If I had to choose between a 302 and a 5.0 then the 5.0 wins. A late model 5.0 from an explorer has better flowing heads, roller rockers, serpentine belt, and the correct firing order for mass air EFI. The explorer EFI system itself is pretty hard to beat too and performs even better than the system used on the 89-93 mustang GT. For a 5.0 my choice would be a rebuilt explorer engine, including the stock EFI system and GT40 heads (the earlier GT40 heads are preferable up to '97-1/2, later GP40P heads are harder to fit exhaust manifolds but can still be done). Convert it to EEC-IV, swap in a better cam and shorty headers and that would be an engine you'd be pretty happy with. That is something you can build on a reasonable budget, plus it delivers great performance using inexpensive, off-the-shelf parts without the need to go too exotic.

Believe me, I have a fuel injected 302 in my bronco and a 5.0 in my explorer. The explorer engine wins hands down. It wouldn't take much to wake up that explorer engine and transplant it into my bronco. Hmmm....

 

[Devin]

So ditch my old 302 and get the newer 5.0? I cant really afford a 351 maybe later down the road....

From what I have seen, the price difference between a 351 and a 302 isn't that big.

 

[4x4bronco]

If I were picking an engine for my bronco it would be a 351W. Hands down its going to have more low RPM torque than any 302 or 5.0. With a truck you want low RPM power. Chances are you're not going to be driving your bronco at 100 mph on the freeway, so high RPM horsepower isn't very usable. Try not to get too hung up on horsepower numbers since there are a lot of different pros and cons to different engines.

If I had to choose between a 302 and a 5.0 then the 5.0 wins hands down. A late model 5.0 from an explorer has better flowing heads, roller rockers, serpentine belt, and the correct firing order for mass air EFI. The explorer EFI system itself is pretty hard to beat too. For a 5.0 my choice would be a rebuilt explorer engine, including the stock EFI system and GT40 heads (the earlier GT40 heads are preferable up to '97-1/2, later GP40P heads are harder to fit exhaust manifolds but can still be done). Convert it to EEC-IV, swap in a better cam and shorty headers and that would be an engine you'd be pretty happy with. That is something you can build on a reasonable budget, plus it delivers great performance using inexpensive, off-the-shelf parts without the need to go too exotic. Believe me, I have a fuel injected 302 in my bronco and a 5.0 in my explorer. The explorer engine wins hands down. It wouldn't take much to wake up that explorer engine and transplant it into my bronco. Hmmm....

Will the Explorer EFI setup work with my stock 302 or would I have to get the whole engine? and whats EEC-IV?

 

[Duke Nukem]

Will the Explorer EFI setup work with my stock 302 or would I have to get the whole engine? and whats EEC-IV?

Yes, an explorer EFI setup will work on a stock 302. EEC-IV refers to the fourth generation of EFI system used by Ford. These are the best understood by the aftermaket crowd with tons of support and a long list of vehicles that can be used to donate parts. The most popular on that list is the 89-93 mustang, though parts can be used from many combinations of vehicles and model years. For sure you want to look for a mass air system (like mustangs and explorers) instead of a speed density system.

Explorer engines run a later generation EEC-V system. It would be much harder to transplant something like that onto a bronco. What most people do is get the explorer hardware (intakes, fuel rail, throttle body, sensor, injectors, etc) and swap in the distributor, wiring harness, and computer from an EEC-IV system. If you're going to consider running EFI I highly recommend you first buy the Ford Fuel Injection book written Charles Probst and you comb through all the articles on www.fordfuelinjection.com.

 

[trailpsycho]

Yes, you could have your engine built up and use the Explorer intakes then use an EEC-IV computer (EEC-IV is the 4th generation of Ford EFI engine computers which have various programs to run various models/configurations of Ford engines...its the engine management computer system for FORD EFI...check out www.fordfuelinjection.com ). At FFI, there are articles in the magazine section where Ryan goes through what is needed or can be used to swap EFI onto a stock motor or transplanting a 5.0 into your Bronco. I would run the 5.0...the roller cam alone affords you about 20-25 free HP. Its got 300 ft/lbs of torque completely stock, which aint bad. I went wheeling this w/e w/ a guy who had a 351W with EFI on it and it ran awesome...making me rethink my 5.0, but I figure with a 331 kit I should be pretty close in power.

 

[4x4bronco]

Yes, you could have your engine built up and use the Explorer intakes then use an EEC-IV computer (EEC-IV is the 4th generation of Ford EFI engine computers which have various programs to run various models/configurations of Ford engines...its the engine management computer system for FORD EFI...check out www.fordfuelinjection.com ). At FFI, there are articles in the magazine section where Ryan goes through what is needed or can be used to swap EFI onto a stock motor or transplanting a 5.0 into your Bronco. I would run the 5.0...the roller cam alone affords you about 20-25 free HP. Its got 300 ft/lbs of torque completely stock, which aint bad. I went wheeling this w/e w/ a guy who had a 351W with EFI on it and it ran awesome...making me rethink my 5.0, but I figure with a 331 kit I should be pretty close in power.

Cool...I called the guy and he said he can go down on to $500....for the 5.0 with all the hardware so Im going to be picking it up later on the week.

Thanks for the help DukeNukem,trailpsycho,69Bronc,ochretoe,
Broncobowsher.

One more question I forgot to ask anybody run a 5.0 with a 4 speed toploader? Im mostly going 75% highway and 25% Mild off roading?

 

[Skuzzlebutt]

Now I did my research and the original 302 for my truck produced 210 HP and the 5.0 HO produced 225 ....

The 302s 210 HP is gross, while the 5.0s 225 is net. So the 5.0s edge is quite a bit more than 15 HP.

 

[Grunt1058]

I got my 351W from an 84 Bronco (whole Bronco) for $300.00. Sold off the Tranny/t-case/radiator/and rear axle for $1000.00. That made my engine Free and I had $700 towards my build.

Just a thought. 351Ws are out there and cheap.

 

[GABoy005]

I like the 302 and 351 but personally I am a 347 fan. Great hp and torque and you can use the original block. It will cost some money though!

 

[Punisher]

Would the tranny out of the explorer be a good donor to? Im looking to do the EFI and want to do an auto tranny at the same time, I was going to look for a car to get what I need but would it be better to look for an Explorer?

 

[trailpsycho]

Yeah, the Explorer tranny is the updated, lower geared AOD. Broncobowsher is running two of them. So are some others. Only problem is you have to/really need to pick up a Baumanator to run it. The Buamanator is a stand alone controller that allows you to program up to 3 different settings/modes for the tranny (controls shift points, stall speeds, etc). I looked into it, but decided to stay with a 3spd. Pretty cool though. The Bauman Engineering site where they sell the controller ALSO sells a fully manual module/valve body for the tranny, so that you can shift the tranny like a manual, but without a clutch...but you have to shift it up/down all the time I believe...no normal auto then manual auto...now that would be trick! Someone correct me if I am wrong.


How about if I correct myself...I meant to say stayed with a manual, not a 3 spd...I went with the NV3550 5spd...man, I am losing it...arent I supposed to be working?

John

 

[Duke Nukem]

Would the tranny out of the explorer be a good donor to? Im looking to do the EFI and want to do an auto tranny at the same time, I was going to look for a car to get what I need but would it be better to look for an Explorer?

The explorer 4R70W tranny will work and is a very nice setup. The downside is that it is electronically controlled and will likely need a seperate computer to control it, such as the one made by Bauman Engineering. That will probably cost you another $500 for the electronics. Some guys prefer to use the earlier AOD trannys that will give you overdrive without the need for expensive electronics to run it.

If money were no object I would prefer the 4R70W, but you gotta go with what your skills and budget can afford.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The bauman eletronic cost $425 (was $400 but went up a year or so ago). That's about what a non-adjustable aftermarket valve body goes for. With that computer you don't need to do much or anything to the valve body. I always throw in a valve body kit (another $100) to firm up the shifts beyond what factory calibrations would allow. Lets me do a nice scratch going into second. Don't usually need to, but I can't leave enough alone.

As for the full manual part, don't even need to go into the valve body for that. About 5 minutes setting the software and you have full manual. When done playing, flip a switch and back to full auto.

Someday I will hook up the manual shift part that ties in with the cruise control buttons.

 

[4x4bronco]

Just out of curiosity would the tranny from a 92 5.0 Stang work with an EB and if so how close would the shifter be to the dash or ?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Just out of curiosity would the tranny from a 92 5.0 Stang work with an EB and if so how close would the shifter be to the dash or ?

That transmission would be either a T5 (stick) or AOD (auto)
The shifter would go where you decided it would go, don't expect the shifter to be a bolt in. There are little differences like floorboard shape, transfer case, etc.
If you are looking at the T5, it makes a lousy Bronco transmission anyway