4 spd tranny question/opinion

[norville]

Folks, I know this has been beat to death, and I did search over and over again. I have a 69 with a stock 302 and 33's, I want to keep an eye out for a 4 spd. there's lots of np435 here that's great however, I will not be doing any rock crawling or even any heavy 4wheeling. Just some trail use and short trips and garbage runs to the city.

I will say I have not driven my 69 yet. It's on hold for a bit. But, I do like to watch for parts until I get to the truck upand running. Now, I have had a 3 speed and a 3spd with OD top shift in a 65 F250. Both were behind a very healthy 390FE. I loved the 4spOD however if were not for the gobs of torque. I would not have been happy. I live in a very rural area with lots of hill and speeds in the 35mph range. That's right between gears on a three speed.

My current toy has an I6 with a non synchronized first 3pd. PITA. It has 145hp+ and about 200lbs of torque. I imagine my stock 302 will drive similar. And I do unt for gears all the time or just ride 2nd out to 3k+.

So my thoughts were either a 2wd ZF conversion or a 4spd toploader swap. I figure my 1:1 top gear will turn 65mph in the 2600rpms (4:10 & 33's). What I don;t know is how to mate a toploader to the dana 20? and do I need a 2wd or 4wd?? I can get a 351w with a 2wd 4spd behind it for $500 or $300 for just the tranny, bell, ect... no motor.

I realize from reading many post. that the 435 is the top choice here, but I'm afraid I would not really gain anything over the 3spd I currently have. I don't have a real use for the granny gear. My only other though was the t19 with the 4:1 first, but that doesn't really help either.

I'd any and all input about my thinking here:

thanks,

bob

 

[Broncobowsher]

First off, forget the 2WD ZF swap. Everyone on this board who has looked at it cringes. Multiple engineering errors and as of yet never driven itself around the block.

All of the transmissions with a 1:1 top gear will behave the same in top gear.
I would really like you to drive the 3-speed you have now and decide how the first gear is for you. It is 3:1 and if you need lower that leads us in one direction. T-19 is one of those options. If it is fine and you just want to space the gears closer together, Advance Adaptors has a kit for doing a car top loader to the Dana 20.

Another option, probably getting a little pricy, but the NV3550 5-speed gives you a 4:1 first gear and a nice little overdrive. Modern 5-speed with very nicely spaced gears. From the sounds of the project it would probably be the nicest possible option.

 

[norville]

I admit you are correct... I really should try it first. I will keep an eye out for the 3550, I passed on a few before I got the bronco...I just didn't like all the work involved to make it fit... or perhaps I'm just an old school type of guy..

I looked up AA, thanks. I found what I need. I know I sound biased about this 3 speed but I've been there. And every 3spd I've had I'm always hunting for a gear. I'm in no hurry, I just hate to pass on a good deal cause I wasn't sure what would work. If a 3350 comes along cheap I will grab that one. I have a small antique junk yard next to me that's loaded with pre 80 trucks. down to the 1930's I know of at least 24+ 2wd truck trannies there. A dozen scouts and travelalls ( anything usable there?)

I'll have to give the guy that has the 2wd 4spd and get the numbers I need the wide ratio one I believe.

thanks again for you thoughts.

bob

 

[Viperwolf1]

Not mine but close to me.

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/986962449.html

 

[broncnaz]

I've run the toploader 4 speed, stock 3 sp stock c4 and a NP435. Out of all of them the NP435 is by far the best. Its not nessarily a rock crawling tranny and other than the low first gear it has basically the same gearing as the stock 3 sp. The toploader is really no big gain either although the gear split is better but offroad it was not so great for my needs. But it is a easy swap just need a output shaft.
I would think that a ZF would be a much better choice for your setup. 4.11's and 33 in tires would be a good canidate for a 5 speed. but as was said basically the 2wd version is out unless you like to cobble stuff together. If you look around you should be able to find a 4wd version for relatively cheap but it goes require more mods driveshafts, crossmembers ect. All said and done it will cost less than a NV3550 setup but then again the 3550 doesnt require driveshaft mods.
If I remember right the scoout trannys have a longer input shaft so they are not really useable on a ford swap.
You might want to drive your 69 first as it will be a little different than driving the straight 6 also the 6cyl tranny's have slightly different gearing than the V8 trannys. The extra torque the 302 will have will make a differance. You should have no problems on hills with a 302 and 4.11's.
I run 33's with 3.50 gears and a NP435 and it pulls hills just fine although my 302 is not stock.

 

[norville]

Thank you all again. I appreciate the input on a sunbect that has been gone over a few times on the past.

bob

 

[b4opec]

I got a toploader at the wreckers thinking I was so smart (on the cheap!) Got home and figured out it was the overdrive. Didn't know how to feel about that once I started researching it; got mixed reviews some saying it wasn't as strong as the regular toploader. I had it rebuilt and the guy said I'd be cool. Here I am 7 years later and it's still fine.

Here's the thing- on the freeway it's fantastic but around town it's the pits. If I could change I would probably go to a wide ratio regular toploader. Would have been a helluva lot cheaper too. The output shaft from advance is (if my memory serves me correctly) a basic swap for the regular toploader, but the OD has a larger rear bearing, so you have to find someone to machine the bearing face on the d20 housing to fit the larger bearing. It's a bit of a pain in the ass, my machine shop charged me a small fortune to do it claiming it took longer than planned to get it setup on the lathe (I can see that though)

Anyhow, I find that at around 25-30 I can't be in 2nd but can't quite be in 3rd. That's about the speed I drive around my town so it's unfortunate for me. If someone said they had an EB toploader conversion (wide or even close ratio!) and said they wanted to swap me for the OD I'd probably think about it! I've fooled around on the trails and it's not a deal-breaker at all running the toploader. Bang for your buck-if you're primarily street driving-it's probably the best and easiest swap. Oh, and I love the feel of a duffy short throw shifter--the snap. I'd consider the 435 just cause it's so damn stout- how often do you hear of guys having problems with them? never.

 

[Pa PITT]

Which

I didn't read all the post word for word ..BUT after swapping mine over from the 72 org. 3 speed to the NP435 ...There was nothing like it ..But if there is a gap in the exact spot you want to drive ..Then swap the rear axle gear to get where you want to be ...I understand what your saying about a certain power curve ...I have one street I avoid because it doesn't fit my rig...But the NP435 has been a major plus..BY the way Running Buddy has one for sale for a 6 cyl...

 

[rjlougee]

Maybe a compromise might be the best answer, I. e. get the 4 speed OD tranny and go to lower gears in the diffs.

I had one of the 4 speed ODs in my '83 Bronco with the 300 inline. Really sucked with the 3.50 gears, but very nice with the 4.10s. That was with 31-33" tires, 4.56 might be better with 35s or so.
Joe

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

If you chose to go with the OD 4 speed, the better choice is with internal top shifting tower. It eliminates all of the loose linkage and shifter mounting problems. I have 2 each of the internal and external shifting models. The 3 speed tailhousing is easy to machine out for larger bearing. If you are at the mercy of relying on other people to get any machine work done, shop around and make sure they understand exactly what needs to be done and know how much it should cost.

 

[norville]

I know the feeling, that top loader OD was not a back road ripping trans... I did like it when I was loaded heavy. Remember I had a warm390 in my 65 F250. It would move a heavy truck well. With the low first and having to wind it out in the other gears was actually a plus.. I really did like the trans, but for what I want it's not the trans for me.. unless one falls into my lap.

thanks
bob

 

[b4opec]

If you are at the mercy of relying on other people to get any machine work done, shop around and make sure they understand exactly what needs to be done and know how much it should cost.

You ever heard of Marin County? The problem around here is that a job usually comes out 2-3x more than you were planning to spend/quoted. Very affluent area and people here just whip out the checkbook without a care..it's a total pain in the ass