460 efi?

[Dr. Awsome]

I might have stumbled on a possably free truck that has a blown tranny as well as some other wierd little issues that has a 460 whit FI. I was wondering who's done it here. I've heard of poeple doing this in an EB but as far as I can tell it's fairly rair. How hard of a swap is it and what mods do i have to do. I figured I would have to weld new motor mounts and cut the inner fenders as well as do some sort of body lift. I know I would need a different tranny but I have a big block C6 in my garage.
Any major issues I'm not seeing. Also what opinios does eveyone have about this? Should I do it or not? I have limited funds so this would be a very long term prodject.
Just for the record I need a new motor any ways. My 302 is almost dead. Thanks in advance.

 

[BoltBuster]

I have thought about it only, but as I work on mine with what little room I have and the cooling issues that can occur and as tight as it is with a 351W. I think I would take the truck either way for the cash value and avoid the swap. But dont let me dash your dreams go for it!

 

[wildbill]

;D ;D ;D The only 460 I have seen in a bronco was a pull truck. It wes a 70 I think and he did a lot of fab work to make it work. But hey if you have a lot of money it will go good luck. ;D ;D ;D Bill %)

 

[SaddleUp]

It is pretty rare because the modifications are pretty extensive. All of them I have seen have had the firewall cut and a funky steering setup to clear the motor. There are also exhaust issues and potentially brake linkage problems. If I wanted big block power then I would have a 427 Stroker motor built instead. Eventually I will drop a Stroker kit in mine.

 

[bmc69]

Both of my EB trail rigs have Aussie 408s (30-over 400 with Australian 2V heads) ..the 460 is not much worse for fit (the two motors mate to the same bell housing). The 460 engine will bolt to the existing EB mounts using the L&L mounts but right on left and left on right. The firewall has to be cut out on the drivers side and boxed back about 1 inch. I have a template for that. Exhaust is challenging..fenderwell is the easiest wasy to go.

I use the T-18 or NP435 and Np205 with the factory BB bellhousing. 2" or 3" body lift is required too. It all fits fine but you have to fab a new tranny mount. Front driveshaft is longer and rear is shorter. One coneren I would have would be how the EFI manifold setup would fit..haven't tried that yet.

I'll compare the torque and horsepower numbers on a dollar per ft-lb basis with any 408 and up Windsor and go home with a big smile on my face. I'm giving up 60 extra pounds..and saving at least 2 grand. Though I must confess..I have a new motor going together with a 'just introduced' 4.25" stroker crank and KB pistons that makes it a 434. Now that one is a little more pricey..probably in the same cost range as a 408 Windsor..but I just had to have it ;D

 

[broncnaz]

I dont think its worth all the hassle unless your in some type of competion. I'm not sure of BMC69's engine but I'm sure its as he say but still you have to change a lot of things to get it in there and while his engine may have been $2000 cheaper than a stroker motor. I'm sure it cost almost that much if not more in custom parts and modifications to get it all to work. not even considering suspension mods for the heavier engine. Where a 302/351 based motor bolts right in. It sounds as though you dont have the cash right now anyways. Id get the free truck fix it up then sell it then you could have some extra cash for your worn out 302

 

[bmc69]

I dont think its worth all the hassle unless your in some type of competion.

The entire 408 'Cleveland' conversion project is actually not bad at all if you are doing a frame-off anyway. When I did the first one I was truly amazed how well everything fit and how few mods were required. The weight issue is largely a myth as far as the 351m/400 goes..it weighs 60 pounds more than a 351W. The 460, however, weighs in at a great deal more so in that case the added weight would be/is an issue for the suspension.

BD article on my 400 EBs coming soon to a mailbox near you.

 

[SaddleUp]

The entire 408 'Cleveland' conversion project is actually not bad at all if you are doing a frame-off anyway. When I did the first one I was truly amazed how well everything fit and how few mods were required. The weight issue is largely a myth as far as the 351m/400 goes..it weighs 60 pounds more than a 351W. The 460, however, weighs in at a great deal more so in that case the added weight would be/is an issue for the suspension.

BD article on my 400 EBs coming soon to a mailbox near you.

If nothing else it should be easy to find a 400M (AKA Boat Anchor) motor really cheap because almost no one wants them. The best mod my brother has made to his 78 BB was to yank the 400M out and drop a 5.8 with EFI in instead.

 

[bmc69]

If nothing else it should be easy to find a 400M (AKA Boat Anchor) motor really cheap because almost no one wants them.

Hee hee..thank you. Keep the myth alive....it keeps our costs down, as you correctly noted.

The 408 'boat anchor' I'm running in the '69 printed the following from the dyno:

342 HP @4480 and 496 Ft-lbs (!) of torque @ 2990....not to shabby for a boat anchor running on pump gas..

 

[SaddleUp]

Hee hee..thank you. Keep the myth alive....it keeps our costs down, as you correctly noted.

The 408 'boat anchor' I'm running in the '69 printed the following from the dyno:

342 HP @4480 and 496 Ft-lbs (!) of torque @ 2990....not to shabby for a boat anchor running on pump gas..

It takes more than good torque numbers to make a good off road motor. In real world use my brother runs circles around the warmed over 400M he pulled out with the stock 5.8 he put in its place.

 

[bmc69]

What real world is that, pray tell?. I have 408s in two EBs and two full-size and they make s similalrly prepped 5.8W look pretty tame..I have some of those too. Maybe his version of 'warmed over' is different than mine?.

Considering that the 351W and 400 blocks and internals are very similar..same bore size and spacing and essentially the same crank geometry (same 3.5" stroke for the 351W and 351M..4.00" stroke for the 400) , journal sizes etc, I would be interested in an explanation of how the 'modern' canted valve oval-port Cleveland heads used on the 351m/400s would fair so poorly compared to the obsolete Windosr head design.

The motors got a bad rep mainly beacuse Ford had to radically detune them almost immediately after production was started to meet emmissions requirements. Not hard at all to correct though..if you know what you are doing. I have been building high-performance 400s for about 16 years now..wouldn't want to count how many.

 

[SaddleUp]

What real world is that, pray tell?. I have 408s in two EBs and two full-size and they make s similalrly prepped 5.8W look pretty tame..I have some of those too. Maybe his version of 'warmed over' is different than mine?.

Considering that the 351W and 400 blocks and internals are very similar..same bore size and spacing and essentially the same crank geometry (same 3.5" stroke for the 351W and 351M..4.00" stroke for the 400) , journal sizes etc, I would be interested in an explanation of how the 'modern' canted valve oval-port Cleveland heads used on the 351m/400s would fair so poorly compared to the obsolete Windosr head design.

The motors got a bad rep mainly beacuse Ford had to radically detune them almost immediately after production was started to meet emmissions requirements. Not hard at all to correct though..if you know what you are doing. I have been building high-performance 400s for about 16 years now..wouldn't want to count how many.

The real world where we take ours off road and put them in extreme situations. You'll need to find an explanation elsewhere as to how a stock 5.8 EFI motor runs circles around a warmed up 400M. I'm simply saying that off road in the real world it does.

 

[bmc69]

The real world where we take ours off road and put them in extreme situations.

Ahh..THAT real world. Guess I better try that someday before I say any more about the motors, huh?.

 

[bmc69]

hmmm...found this comment on a big bronco site. Wonder where they get the idea..

Just call me Roger the Shrubber comparing the windsor to the m block is like trying to chop down a tree with a herring

Me, I'm too busy running Tellico F4s like Slickrock and Lower 2, WITC, Rausch Creek, Big Dogs, Paragon, etc. and comp rock events to have any time to gain experience with 'extreme situations' so that will have wait. I'll get round to it though