609 with Deadenbear C's and Knuckles

[DanWheeler]

Tried searching for 609 but nothing comes up. Must be the search not working right. I've noticed it has problems when searching for numbers.

Has anyone here built a 609 with Deadenbear C's and Knuckles?

Seems about $1000 is the magic number for a serious front axle able to handle 40" tires:

RCV axles for Dana 44
- cost: around $1000
- pros: drop right in. Dont need new steering linkage, locker, gears, suspension mods
- cons: Dana 44 ball joint is still the weak link

78/79 or 85-90 Dana 60 w/ KingPins
- cost: About $1000
- pros: Few mods necessary, kingpins
- cons: Hard to find, known weakness in knuckles

Hybrid axle w/ Deadenbear inner C's and Knuckles
- cost: $1098 for a pair of both
- pros: strength, available in several axle tube diam, Ford 9 up front = good
- cons: need to buy hubs, spindles, shafts, etc etc and steering linkage

Am I missing any other options?

 

[DanWheeler]

forgot one major item - 609 requires custom housing which would be $250 for a Currie 9 housing plus some axle tube and maybe a machinist to build it or a custom housing which might be $4-500

 

[av bronco]

RCVs need new locking hubs.

 

[DanWheeler]

Just gonna post some info here as I find it.

Spidertrax has a 9" right offset housing in their outlet section for $399. This could be flipped around for the front to use in a 609.

http://www.spidertrax.com/3-OD-x-1-4-Wall-Right-Offset

Spidertrax housing are normally $499. Not sure how many of these they have left.

They also sell a innerC/Knuckle kit that uses a custom unit bearing. I called them up to talk about unit bearings vs standard/spindle and they seem pretty confident in the unit bearing design as long as it is well made and not an import unit bearing. They have roller kits for around $2100 that include the housing, inner C's, knuckles and unit bearings. Their knuckles dont use kingpins - they use a spherical ball & race design. They have unit bearings available in 5, 6 and 8 lug which is kind of cool.

Roller kit for $2127

 

[DanWheeler]

also - asked the Spidetrax guy about the deadenbear C' and knuckles. Very honest, he didn't have anything bad to say about the deadenbear setup - just said they were different but both very strong. Said the biggest advantage to the spidertrax knuckles is weight.

 

[70EB]

Might want to give these guys a call. Down the road from us and going thru the thread, they made a 609 for an EB. prices are not too bad.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=571086

 

[DanWheeler]

oh that is awesome, thanks for the link. I will definitely check these guys out. I'd feel much better about someone else welding the C's on.

 

[70EB]

Yea. I priced them for a rear setup with axles and explorer brakes and they were very competitive.

 

[br0nc0xrapt0r]

I'm glad you brought this up as I was thinking very similar ideas. At first my plan was to find a low buck GM 60 front and use that since all I needed from it was the tubes and outers "gm knuckles have more meat for high steer arms". Then I quickly decided why would one want to do such a thing when for the cost of a junk axle could have a brand new set of C's and knuckles!
mu plan was a bit different, waste not want not so I was going to use the center of my small bearing 9 and 3in tube for axle tubes truss the whole thing and be done.

the price seems very right when compared to a full on 60 swapand a built 9 in the rear can be made to match the 609 infront. Also make note that a 9in and 609 axle combo makes for easy third member repair gear setup and one extra third can be built for cheap with a set of used gears and a 35spline spool to have as a trail spare potentially saving the day and your wheeling trip for both axles!

However untill this becomes my need rather than want I will be waiting for a stronger set of ball joints for the 44 to make the rcv shafts the better option?

someone built an awesome 609 for an eb on pirate that I found when reserching this for my self I will see if I can find it for you.

sorry for the long post.

found it

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420834

 

[DanWheeler]

yeah, if the Dana44 strong balljoints were available now or soon I would definitely consider going the RCV route. I like my Dana 44. It's small, light, cheap and already built.

a 609 is starting to look very expensive to build although it would be the ultimate axle.

I'm actually happy with my 35s right now but what I'm not happy with is my front flex and I dont want to pour a bunch of time and money into 3-linking the 44 if I'm going to need to swap out the axle later so I can run larger tires.

so it kinda snowballs.

its looking like the path of least resistance is to find an 85-91.5 F350 front Dana 60. I'm not sure what needs to be done to it besides changing gears, building some steering linkage and adding a locker. I haven't heard anything about weak links in the 85-91.5 Dana 60s.

Wish I knew exactly how much abuse the D44 balljoints could take. I would just hate to get stuck on the trail with a busted balljoint.

 

[br0nc0xrapt0r]

yeah, if the Dana44 strong balljoints were available now or soon I would definitely consider going the RCV route. I like my Dana 44. It's small, light, cheap and already built.

a 609 is starting to look very expensive to build although it would be the ultimate axle.

I'm actually happy with my 35s right now but what I'm not happy with is my front flex and I dont want to pour a bunch of time and money into 3-linking the 44 if I'm going to need to swap out the axle later so I can run larger tires.

so it kinda snowballs.

its looking like the path of least resistance is to find an 85-91.5 F350 front Dana 60. I'm not sure what needs to be done to it besides changing gears, building some steering linkage and adding a locker. I haven't heard anything about weak links in the 85-91.5 Dana 60s.

Wish I knew exactly how much abuse the D44 balljoints could take. I would just hate to get stuck on the trail with a busted balljoint.

what are you breaking or is it just a I don't want to do the work twice type thing.

 

[Tito]

Might want to give these guys a call. Down the road from us and going thru the thread, they made a 609 for an EB. prices are not too bad.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=571086

Ooooh those are pretty!
I shot a pm over to him to get a price on the bare goods. Would be a sweet sweet setup.

 

[DanWheeler]

Just dont wanna do the work twice... costs a lot more time & money to make a bunch of tiny steps rather than one big step to get where you want to be a few years down the road.

Too bad deadenbear or someone doesn't make cheap Dana 44 Kingpin C's and knuckles.

 

[br0nc0xrapt0r]

Just dont wanna do the work twice... costs a lot more time & money to make a bunch of tiny steps rather than one big step to get where you want to be a few years down the road.

Too bad deadenbear or someone doesn't make cheap Dana 44 Kingpin C's and knuckles.

Now that would be the ticket but from where i can tell it would be easier for somone just to make a killer set of ball joints. There is talk of this but like I said not holding my breath on this one.

 

[DanWheeler]

I pulled together some prices for building a 609.. it gets ugly fast.

SpiderTrax 9" driver drop housing - $399
or
Ballistic 9 housing (can be cut for drive side drop) - $399

Deadenbear Inner C's $254x2
Deadenbear Knuckles (Chevy - need chevy stuff to run 35 spline stub shafts) $259x2

Ford 9" center (low pinion to start to keep costs down) - $100?
Ford 9" R&P set - $200

Chevy Dana 60 Hubs
Chevy Dana 60 spindles
Chevy Rotors
Chevy Calipers
Caliper Brackets

35 spline axle kit w/ super joints (completeoffroad.com) - $869

Chevy Steering Kit from Ballistic - $240

Dana 60 kingpin rebuild kit $59 x 2

Warn Dana 60 35 spline hubs - $239

ARB Ford 9 35 spline - $860

Thats 4 grand right there and it doesn't even include hubs, spindles, rotors and calipers. I'm having trouble figuring out where to get that stuff. NAPA doesn't show it on their site and I can't find those parts loose on polyperformance.

It might make more sense to pick up a GM Dana 60 and grind off the inner C's and weld them back on to a SpiderTrax or Ballistic housing. Then you'd have the hubs, rotors, spindles, knuckles, etc already taken care of.

not sure about axle shafts though. Would the Dana 60 stock 35 spline inner axle shafts fit into a 35 spline ARB?

 

[br0nc0xrapt0r]

I pulled together some prices for building a 609.. it gets ugly fast.

SpiderTrax 9" driver drop housing - $399
or
Ballistic 9 housing (can be cut for drive side drop) - $399

Deadenbear Inner C's $254x2
Deadenbear Knuckles (Chevy - need chevy stuff to run 35 spline stub shafts) $259x2

Ford 9" center (low pinion to start to keep costs down) - $100?
Ford 9" R&P set - $200

Chevy Dana 60 Hubs
Chevy Dana 60 spindles
Chevy Rotors
Chevy Calipers
Caliper Brackets

35 spline axle kit w/ super joints (completeoffroad.com) - $869

Chevy Steering Kit from Ballistic - $240

Dana 60 kingpin rebuild kit $59 x 2

Warn Dana 60 35 spline hubs - $239

ARB Ford 9 35 spline - $860

Thats 4 grand right there and it doesn't even include hubs, spindles, rotors and calipers. I'm having trouble figuring out where to get that stuff. NAPA doesn't show it on their site and I can't find those parts loose on polyperformance.

It might make more sense to pick up a GM Dana 60 and grind off the inner C's and weld them back on to a SpiderTrax or Ballistic housing. Then you'd have the hubs, rotors, spindles, knuckles, etc already taken care of.

not sure about axle shafts though. Would the Dana 60 stock 35 spline inner axle shafts fit into a 35 spline ARB?

From what I understand it does fit and thats what makes the whole combo work and is desireable, strong 60 shafts and strong 9" gears.

 

[70EB]

I pulled together some prices for building a 609.. it gets ugly fast.

SpiderTrax 9" driver drop housing - $399
or
Ballistic 9 housing (can be cut for drive side drop) - $399

Deadenbear Inner C's $254x2
Deadenbear Knuckles (Chevy - need chevy stuff to run 35 spline stub shafts) $259x2

Ford 9" center (low pinion to start to keep costs down) - $100?
Ford 9" R&P set - $200

Chevy Dana 60 Hubs
Chevy Dana 60 spindles
Chevy Rotors
Chevy Calipers
Caliper Brackets

35 spline axle kit w/ super joints (completeoffroad.com) - $869

Chevy Steering Kit from Ballistic - $240

Dana 60 kingpin rebuild kit $59 x 2

Warn Dana 60 35 spline hubs - $239

ARB Ford 9 35 spline - $860

Thats 4 grand right there and it doesn't even include hubs, spindles, rotors and calipers. I'm having trouble figuring out where to get that stuff. NAPA doesn't show it on their site and I can't find those parts loose on polyperformance.

It might make more sense to pick up a GM Dana 60 and grind off the inner C's and weld them back on to a SpiderTrax or Ballistic housing. Then you'd have the hubs, rotors, spindles, knuckles, etc already taken care of.

not sure about axle shafts though. Would the Dana 60 stock 35 spline inner axle shafts fit into a 35 spline ARB?

Not sure of your timeline, but you can get the housing/inner Cs done and then collect parts over time to offset the cost while you wheel what you have. i have seen knuckles on Craigslist for cheap before. This would be the route I would take.

Buying a used D60 has other hidden costs dependent on condition - remember, it is used axle that will probably need to be gone thru. this would now bring you to full width unless you cut down the long side = more $$. built 609 housing allows you to control WMS.

Lastly, don't forget your rear axle. Keep it if going full width D60. 8-lug or parts on the front axle for 5-lug = more $$$. Wheels, etc.

 

[KyleQ]

Ballistic is working on a "bombproof" D44 ball joint - those paired with RCV axles will make the 44 market explode.

I wend the D60 route - I've got full hydro on mine and it's taken the beating I've given it without any issues. My axle is bone stock - I changed the ujoints in it and bolted on my high steer arms.

 

[luderchris]

Ballistic is working on a "bombproof" D44 ball joint - those paired with RCV axles will make the 44 market explode.

I wend the D60 route - I've got full hydro on mine and it's taken the beating I've given it without any issues. My axle is bone stock - I changed the ujoints in it and bolted on my high steer arms.

Do you have any links to the D44 balljoints Ballistic is working on? I just installed the RCVs and I am sure I will find the next week link before too long. Thanks.

 

[KyleQ]

Do you have any links to the D44 balljoints Ballistic is working on? I just installed the RCVs and I am sure I will find the next week link before too long. Thanks.

Pirate is waiting for Ballistic to finish the design - but it really does seem they are working on something.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=831074

I've never broken a ball joint in the 6-7 times I killed a u joint in my TTB D44, but there sure are a lot of distressing pics in that thread of broken joints that take out the shafts and possibly the steering.